Re: Composting manure

"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:45aa6f4b$0$756$4c56ba96@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

thought it was soil-borne(?)

It isn't and you're VERY fortunate to have strict import regulations which
are enforced.

i am all in favour of strict import regulations. in fact, they should be
stricter :-)

wondering then why the legislation has to be so extreme at
all.

Because there are some rogues who'd claim that they fed such and such to
their hens which then went into the pig sty (for instance. Or that a
chicken died on a farm and was thrown onto a muck heap and was eaten by a
pig. You really have to try to cover all contingencies.

it's my experience that people who are genuinely irresponsible stay so
regardless of the law, unfortunately. however well-intentioned a law is (and
it might even be reasonable!!) it won't be followed by irresponsible people.
& _unreasonable_ laws aren't followed by the civilly disobedient either. on
this matter, i wager there's a massive amount of civil disobedience going on
harmlessly - would there be any way to find that out? i couldn't say exactly
because i don't know enough about it & don't need to either, but in all
likelihood _i_ would be civilly disobedient about this. :-)

Not at all. F&M is airborne and spreads to porcine, ovine, bovine,
caprione and possibly other animals which are kept as pets.

if it is airborne, what has that to do with food? the virus is carried on
their food? surely that makes it a food contact (or whatever they call it)
virus too. or, if it's _only_ airborne, that would have nothing to do with
food.

but presumably you might buy veggies FOR the chickens just as you might
buy veggies for yourself.

I might but then it isn't kitchen waste. I wouldn't buy kitchen waste.

but i can't fathom what's "kitchen waste". if one buys or grows greens or
meat for the chickens that's strictly for the chickens, it doesn't matter
that it's been in your kitchen? or does it mean any item for the chickens
(pigs, etc) can't have been inside your kitchen? (at which point i would
wonder what difference it makes!) how does this work? what if you have a
carrot & you eat half & take the other half down to the chickens? is it
"waste", or just a carrot you shared? what if you make a green salad but
only ever intended to eat half & always intended to give the other half to
the chooks? is it "waste" or not? what if your kitchen is open-plan but you
only had the spinach as far as the lounge room, but it was only 3 metres
from the chopping board? what if you keep greens for the chickens in your
fridge, which is in your kitchen? i'm being silly, but that's the point. are
english kitchens crawling with foot & mouth, or something?

As it
happens our poultry graze in the garden, I grow things for them and
wouldn't confess to giving them kitchen or table scraps.

in a climate of paranoia, nobody would "confess" to doing anything that's
illegal - it's just that they do it anyway :-)

Today I pulled up some poor
cabbage plants to make room for something else and gave the chickens that,
that's legal because it hasn't been in the kitchen. Yes, I KNOW it's daft
but the results of F&M weren't daft, they were tragic.

but does daftness avoid tragedy? and HOW can an animal get foot & mouth from
kitchen scraps anyway?! i am not understanding that at all... particularly
the cooked meat scenario - not too many viruses survive cooking! unless f&m
is so virulent it can survive in a chop bone, survive the hens & then spread
elsewhere (somehow).

But I must stress that this law is nothing to do with BSE, that
condition resulted in other legislation.

did people there feel that with rolling outbreaks of horrible diseases,
there might be something wrong? with farming practices, i mean.

Yes. So did caring farmers. It wasn't just farming practices either, it's
had a terrible knock on effect on transporting animals (although not
chickens - yet - but avian flu might affect that) and on slaughterhouses.

I once transported two Hebridean lambs from here to a daughter's farm in
the > back of our car. That wouldn't be allowed now and even proper
transport is highly regulated. She's an organic farmer and used to take
her animals to a local slaughterhouse to save travelling stress for them,
that's been closed and she now has to take them much further.

There are also strict regulations about butchering meat. If she has a cow
killed she can butcher it herself at home but only if she eats the carcase
herself, she's not allowed to sell or give me any and her partner isn't
allowed to eat it.

Officially.

It's a minefield.

is "minefield" a new word for "really stupid" ? :-)

But how would you devise regulations to ensure safety for animals and
humans? I couldn't.

clearly in this case, i couldn't either :-) i think reasonable regulations
are necessary everywhere, depending on what it is one must regulate against.
but i also think the chances of a breakout of foot & mouth because someone
gave their veggie tops & whatnot to their two suburban pet hens seems
absurdly small to non-existent, thus making the legislation just sound
absurd by default. regulations for massive commercial farms really shouldn't
carry over to anyone else. and what is absurd is not supported by people.
and if people don't support it, what on earth is the point?

you cannot "ensure" safety for people and animals. life is inherently
unsafe - this fact is known because 100% of people and animals end up dying
<g>. and some places are even less safe than others. what best practice (for
anything) aims to do is eliminate risk down to "reasonable" risk, rather
than claim any and all risk is unreasonable - because it's not. life is
risk.

not that i can change this and in fact i don't particularly care, but in my
short reading here i've seen a few people say "such and such food is banned
in the u.k. anyway". and i tend to think, well, so? that doesn't mean one
shouldn't do it.
kylie



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