Re: Chicken Lice?

"Jill" <news@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:45e87e74$0$8745$ed2619ec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I agree that is one other trigger that affects most backyard birds but
even when provided with light free range birds still cannot match their
sisterhood inside

correlation is not causation. there are multiple factors to consider.

Why does having light all year around cause stress?

perhaps "stress" isn't the right word - but if a hen is designed to take a
break from laying in winter for physiological reasons & is denied that
break, some people would not approve of that, and while i might not agree
i'd not dispute their disapproval, either.

- they have to cope with constantly changing weather and insufficient
shelter
Nonsense. They have plenty of shelter in the same houses they are shut
away in at night. Sometimes, they simply choose to stay outside in all
weathers.

Spending time too close and personal with other birds is stressful
Everyone knows that periods of prolonged confinement caused problems

i'm not sure what you are arguing here - are you not claiming that battery
birds are kept as stress-free as possible, while also allowing (unspoken)
that they are in (ahem) "periods of prolonged confinement"? so, which is it?

undoubtedly battery birds' keepers try to keep their environment as
stress-free as possible _considering the circumstances_, but it can't be
without stress, because it's unnatural to their nature to be confined
thusly. and since confinement causes problems, again, which is it?

my chooks stay outside for as long as possible, in all weather except when
it's storming so hard they're actually getting drenched to the skin. in the
type of rain that drives me inside without thinking twice, they stay
outside. when we had a day of 42degrees-in-the-shade heat, they stayed
outside (in the dappled shade of trees, not in the total shade of their
house or outdoor shelter). they just like to be outside, & that's all there
is to it :-) they do not think in terms of laying or what's (purportedly)
"good for them", they operate according to what they naturally prefer, &
without doubt being outside is what they prefer. if that's what they like,
who would argue with that?

- they have to cope with high volume, low nutrition food
Like layers pellets?

No - like bugs, grains, seeds, kitchen scraps, greens, etc
Many of the people who describe their birds as having been rescued and
having such a wonderful life outside do not just feed layers ration
I have this "conversation" daily with many emails I recieve - one today
about birds with probable feather pecking due to poor nutrition yet the
email was full of descriptors like treats, running free etc. Folks are
genuine about what they think is what chickens need. Often misguidedly

i put it to you that chickens know what they need. if a hen can range and is
supplied with a full layer's ration as well, you could conclude they'd never
eat any bugs they find - there'd be no need, and they wouldn't want them,
they wouldn't be interested. yet no bug is safe from a hen - to imply that
the extra protein hens get from bugs they find, or the joy and nutrition
(not to mention nice yolk colour) they get from greens is just a frippery
they don't need is a little odd to me, frankly.

laying pellets may be nutritionally balanced in strict technical terms - yet
ime it's not exactly their favourite food. this would indicate that, perhaps
or perhaps not nutritionally, there's something "missing" they go looking
for if they can. (my hens refuse outright to eat it if it's in pellet form,
even - i give it as a mash). it may be textural, behavioural, or related to
some other factor.

one very small example - i reported here featherlessness amongst my hens
from bullying while they were caged for auction (and in one case, bullying
in general). i just couldn't get any improvement until i started giving them
extra protein - above & beyond laying pellets - every single day. sometimes
it's meat & sometimes it's blood-&-bone meal & sometimes cooked soybeans &
sometimes milk... but it's made a massive difference. one weakness of laying
pellets is the pre-assumption that your particular hens don't need anything
beyond the extremely rigid formulation of "what a hen needs", but there are
times hens _need_ something extra. whether it's nutritional or psychological
or something else, it's still a valid need the pellets aren't supplying.

Yes - but you are a sentient being
Anthropomorphism has no place is good animal behaviour studies

it certainly isn't, but i hope you're not claiming chickens aren't sentient
:-) the mark for sentience is that the creature is aware of itself and of
its own suffering (if any). in terms of extreme self-awareness
(self-consciousness), only humans (and even then, only those with an iq
above a certain point) are genuinely sentient. but on the less rigid and
more reasonable scale that most of us use, chickens are obviously sentient.

a chicken's not capable of visualising and wishing for something it doesn't
have (but then, neither is a dog or a pig) but it is aware if it suffers
because of its living conditions.

You can have birds with acres of range and a big house still being
dominant and bullying
Any damage on a bird from any cause will be pounced upon swiftly
(snip)

well of course it's not!! it depends on the bird, its place in the
hierarchy, and the tendencies of its companions!! a remark like that is
nonsensical because we can observe it's not true.

But if every other household was to keep a few pet chickens, there
would no need to import eggs since demand would go down.

And the disease in the national poultry flock would be horrendous - as
would the humans.

oh for goodness' sake. i can't even begin to fathom this continual and
relentless theme of "biosecurity", but beyond that, a few points:

caring for livestock is mostly commonsense & experience & having sources to
refer to if something isn't right, & people have been doing so for millenia.
when a critical mass of people participate in a pretty easy & common
activity, there's a well of experience and knowledge for people to access in
order to improve. it's _because_ ordinary people (indeed, every second
household!) have been keeping chickens & other livestock for millenia that
we know so much about them now & have much better ideas about how to help
them live contentedly and healthily.

go to any SE Asian country

why?

Go back to the 1950's when the mortality rate for most flocks was anything
up to 50% even in the good ones

a quarter of a percent is still "up to 50%", so this is meaningless.

Mycoplasmans; Salmonelas, there is a never ending list of trouble

by my reading, the list of trouble is a great deal more limited than, say,
common human diseases... in fact, it's astonishingly brief... but let's not
quibble.

Let alone the fact that its totally impractical

clearly, only people interested in keeping <animal x> actually do so. when
home hen-keeping began to diminish somewhat, it was hardly due to being
"totally impractical" rather than balancing that against buying eggs/meat at
the shop when all things were considered. i have chooks but buy chicken meat
at the shop. is this because killing my hens is "totally impractical" or
some other reason?

(snip)
there is NEVER any one "right way" to do _anything_. if there was, we'd all
be doing it like little automatons & nobody would ever make any positive
discoveries & we'd never progress at all because what we are doing is
already "right". in reality, there's a range of right ways to do things for
the individuals concerned, the process of what they are doing, and what they
are trying to achieve, and within all of that there's scope for benign
difference.

one feature of animal-related groups on usenet, i've noticed, is a tendency
for one "right way" to develop on the group, & everyone else be damned.
groupthink is brain numbing (but surprisingly common).
kylie


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: OT: farming questions
    ... they are not that different from the birds we raised. ... raised some of the hens to see if they would make it as layers. ... were part of the flock for several years. ... white chickens get boring to look at after a while. ...
    (rec.equestrian)
  • Re: Eglu pros and cons
    ... actually get a timber hen house cheaper than the Eglu, ... be like all the rest of us who can happily let our birds out free ranging ... hens within our own land. ... you have a daytime predator threat. ...
    (sci.agriculture.poultry)
  • Re: Bird Flu - Denmark
    ... ordered to put the birds in, ... Battery chickens forced to eat maggots, covered in filth and surrounded by ... NEGLECTED battery hens were left to eat maggots, ... RSPCA inspectors found more than 1,000 hens with excrement the size of ...
    (uk.business.agriculture)
  • Re: duck health
    ... If these are young birds, particularly those bred for meat, and had some ... ago I had 7 out of 9 hens come up with a mystery injury.They were able ... drake for 5 years. ... Can you use Ivermectin or Wazine 10 to worm ducks? ...
    (sci.agriculture.poultry)
  • Re: Chicken Lice?
    ... hens "realise" they are bereft. ... It gives birds consciousness that they simply do not have. ... We have been importing eggs since the early 1800's ... Do we import eggs for consumption into Australia? ...
    (sci.agriculture.poultry)