Re: blotchy shells

"rumblings" <rumblingsDELETE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:64nuruF2bl72uU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

At some point one has to take a product or reject it.

If you were selling eggs mail order and found that 10 out of 10 batches
had failed under controlled conditions, would you simply say to your
customers - Caveat emptor mate, you set them therefore you accepted them?

I was talking about your eggs. I am not discussing anyone elses. Either sold
or received.
You had eggs that you set.
You had a decision to make.
If you wish to take it any further, then present all the information you
have to your local trading standards office and ask them for their advice.
This is not the place.


You have just said "The candling before would have shown the areas of
shell weakness whether it was caused by the hen or by the post office."

and I said I would like to do that.

NO - I did not say that.
I said that the candling before would show if the eggs had any damage -
whatever the cause.
NOT that the candling would necessarily show what had caused the damage.



You cannot determine which caused the problem without travelling down to
his place with a candler and candling his eggs as they come out of the
hen.


Sorry I thought you just said you could?

No - I did not.



But its certainly normal practise to candle eggs before setting them
wherever they come from.

I look forwards to doing that next time.

Its the best way to checking the condition of the eggs, even your own.
Incubating eggs that have hair line cracks are a potential contaminant for
other eggs in the setting.
;)





OK. So why do these eggs consistently fare worse in the post than
others??

As I have explained location can do it.

Well not location of buyer, as they are scattered over the UK which leaves
location of the seller. I find it hard to believe that his sorting office
consistently ruin his eggs but suppose it is possible.

Considering what I have seen and know of 'our' route -- I have no problem in
thinking that the post is at fault.

We
are talking about eggs with poor shell quality that shouldn't have been
selected for incubation though, and it seems to me that this is the
primary area of concern.

Take it up with trading standards.
The set up looks good, he has certainly thought about what he is doing a lot
more than most breeders.


Seeds are another very grey area, germination is as black an art as
incubation.

(Germination is not a black art. It is something that can be measured from
a sample and then applied to the batch. If a farmer bought a batch of seed
that failed to germinate there would be more than shaking of heads and
mutterings about black arts)

We are not talking about industrial scale of any operations

Home collection of seeds and despatch and germination is a completely
different situation.


The sellers cannot be responsible for the shipping or what someone does
with them.

You expressed surprise that buyers leave feedback before hatching. That
would seem to contradict your "once you've set them you've accepted them"
philosophy.

One conversation is about accepting hatching eggs whatever the source.
.. and the other is about Ebay system.


If you bought, via mail order, from various sources and one consistently
failed, would you regard that source as dubious?

The potential and plausible reason for this has been suggested.
You need to remove this factor, if I wanted the eggs from this breeder, and
I can certainly see why you should.
Talk to this breeder away from Ebay and see if you can arrange a different
route for the eggs.
If you are serious about your future breeding then his work are probably
ones you would find useful.


If it looks like a duff egg and behaves like a duff egg, then surely it is
a duff egg?

See what Trading Standards have to say.


WHY !!!!! -- for goodness sake. Why cannot people become moderately
informed?

Sorry Miss. I am trying

LOL
Sorry - it was exasperation.
The growth in the hobby of chicken keeping has been exponential but without
people taking care to learn some of the basics.
I am astonished at the rubbish that is being printed even in books.
I would never profess to be any expert but I do spend a lot of time
learning, and have done all my life.
Before starting with our breeding I spent some years talking to some of the
great old breeders, many of whom are now lost to us.
Each phone call I had a pad of paper beside me and wrote and wrote, what you
learnt from each one was irreplaceable.
Even so I am painfully aware that we were years too late and that we have
lost so much great knowledge.
However the basics are still there to be learnt.


Thats like saying an average buyer is not meant to realise that bald
tyres on a second hand car might be dangerous.


The average buyer here is made aware of the law regarding bald tyres
before they sit their test. You'd go a long way to find a driver unaware
of the danger of bald tyres.

Why should breeders of birds not inform themselves?



And why should people just breed and breed and breed without any
consideration of quality or selection or anything.

I agree here totally. It is irresponsible to propagate inferior stock -
but not always so easy to determine what is inferior.

But its up to all to be informed.
There are basics like what are good eggs, good hatching practises,
I am not having a go, just frustrated at whats happening at the moment.

Small breeders need to be encouraged, they are the life blood of the future
of good birds in this country.
We have plenty of folks replicating rubbish.

Yes - it looks like you have had an unfortunate experience, but the stock
you aspire to is worth working around the difficulties.
I suppose it depends on what your aims really are.


--
regards
Jill Bowis

Pure bred utility chickens and ducks
Housing; Equipment, Books, Videos, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Working Holidays in Scotland
http://www.kintaline.co.uk



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