Re: BBC News | SCI/TECH | Taste for flesh troubled Neanderthals

From: deowll (deowll_at_bellsouth.net)
Date: 06/28/04 

Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 22:17:20 -0500

"Su Solomon" <susol@zemail.com> wrote in message
news:40DD87E9.E3E@zemail.com...
> deowll wrote:
> >
> > "Su Solomon" <susol@zemail.com> wrote in message
> > news:40DC56CE.491D@zemail.com...
> [snip]
>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Because when all is said and done what is left is not treated
exactly
> > like
> > > > the prey in many known cases.
> > >
> > > It is, the variability seen in consumption and discard is the same as
> > > for non-hominid prey.
> > >
> > > Remember, that depending on prey availabilty and source of prey
> > > (consumption on site or transportation of selected items, or movement
of
> > > prey parts within the 'site' depending on hominid distribution
> > > patterns), that this is subject to variability, as are cases of
> > > cannibalism.
> > >
> > > Just for arguments sake, a group of hominds - who are, as you know
> > > hunter gatherers, and not diners sitting around a dining table, with
> > > knives forks and napkins, like we modern folk. Well, these people
may
> > > have a camp site/food consumption site that may be as small as a
radius
> > > of 4 metres or up to 20 metres or more. Food, whether this be a
deer,
> > > or a pig, or another hominid, may end up scattered throughout the
> > > camp/consumption site. Or, it may be placed/discarded on a midden
> > > within the site, or midden away from the site.
> > >
> > >
> > > > That is the food scraps and that which is not
> > > > eaten is often not going to be radomly discarded like trash neither
are
> > the
> > > > bodies necessarily processed in exactly the same manner.
> > >
> > > They are, see above.
> > >
> > >
> > > > There may also be
> > > > reason to suspect something when several people of different ages
and
> > > > genders get processed at the same place at what seems to be the same
> > time.
> > > > By this I don't mean years or decades. I mean days or weeks at most.
> > >
> > > ????????????????????
> > >
> > >
> > > No one has, to my knowledge, been able to source fossil material from
an
> > > archaeological or palaeonathropological site to within days or weeks
of
> > > individual deposition. You are pursuing a line of enquiry that
cannot
> > > be answered.
> > >
> > >
> > Dating it from the present may be impossible but the lit. is full of
sites
> > that had transient use and then a gape of some rather long time to the
next
> > use.
>
> All sites of prehistoric hunter gatherers are used on a transient
> basis. Revisiting sites on the yearly, or say 6 yearly 'round' is
> dependant on the richness of the environment.
> See:
>
That is still going to be suggested by a larger amount of material.

> Binford, L. R. 1984. In Pursuit of the Past. Thames & Hudson,
> London.
>
> chapter 6, pp 109-143
>
> for an understanding of how people use the landscape and lay down an
> 'archaeological site'.
>
>
> Then take into account how long in terms of years, it may take for the
> deposits in a site to be buried. What looks like a 'once use' site, may
> often be a site that has been used on and off for several times, over a
> number of years on a 6-12 months basis, before the deposits are covered,
> and the whole process starts again. Or the site may be abandoned, (your
> gape, or more properly called: a hiatus) for some hundreds or even
> thousand of years before the whole process starts again.
>
What you have in many sites is a very thin layer with a few artifacts and
the partial remains of a few animals at most followed by a hiatus as you put
it.

I often refuse to use words like haitus because I tend to think there us in
the lit rather than more common words which means the same thing is just
some dolt trying to look smarter by using less familiar terms. Every
profession does it.

> In enclosed areas people re-use fire pits and cooking fires, they will
> even sit/sleep/make implements in the same place that they used a few
> months or a year previously. And providing there has not been a roof
> fall, or some severe scavenging by animals/birds/reptiles, the whole
> mess that they left behind a year ago will be waiting to for them to add
> more mess to the 'site'. It takes some time for sediments to cover a
> site, years rather then months.
>
But the amount of human created debris will increase. The more wood you burn
the more ash you leave.
>
> How then do you tell which part of the site was laid down, three days
> apart?

You can't for certain. The haitus may suggest a lot as does the amount of
material in the layer left by them.
>
>
>
> > All the material in the layer almost certainly meets the standard. It
> > is more or less the norm.
>
> All the material in a layer/spit, MAY be the result of one use, but this
> is extremely hard to prove. Conjoining bones may be a way to show if
> this is the case in point. Curtis Marean has been working on this for
> some years, with some small success, it is an extremely time consuming
> and labour intensive exercise.
>
> >
> > What isn't is locations that show prolonged use in older sites.
>
> Sorry I dont get your meaning with this.
>
If you have thick layer of cultural material suggesting that people used the
same location for a long time before a gape appears. The nature of the
material found will tell you if it was year round or seasonal.

>
> > > > By the way I've listened to translations of some people who were
eating
> > dead
> > > > relatives and while religion and a desire to keep the dead with them
> > always
> > > > played a role in some groups they still have cook outs using
imported
> > mutton
> > > > and protein shortage was a major problem so to me it looks like they
> > wanted
> > > > meat and used the other things to justify where they got it. It may
be
> > > > telling that the women who got the least meat from other sources
were
> > the
> > > > hardest to break of the habit. The occasional cook out helped
wonders.
> > >
> > > I am assuming that you are talking about the Fore of PNG? No matter
> > > how much meat or other tissues they, the women and children, consumed,
> > > the primary reason for consumption was that of a mortuary practice.
> > >
> > You are entitled to your opinion.
>
> No, I am entitled to the opinion of the Fore, they are the ones who
> practiced mortuary cannibalism.
>

Which according to the cannibles often causes people to get very get sick
and die. Some groups had elders who said this was a very bad idea for
exactly those reasons but if you have a very unbalanced diet the urge to eat
what you need to live can be very strong. It is a tough choice.

Handling a diseased body and eating the flesh using less than proper
sanitary methods is hyper risky. The increased sickness and mortility
suggests a group has to have some very strong imperical reason to do
something this stupid and self distructive or the practice is not going to
last.

>
> > >
> > > "Proving" the "reasons" behind cannibalistic practices in past
> > > communities of hominids, by analysis of the fossil remains is
> > > pointless. All these practices: people as a food resource; mortuary
> > > rites; enemy retribution etc etc, all leave the same signature.
> > >
>
>
> > On occasion you can come up with enough traces of cermony to suggest
some
> > respect for the dead or what happened was part of some sort of religious
> > practice
>
> Yes, it is always a good sign to find traces of ochre on body remains,
> it does indicate that some sort of ritual was practiced.
>
> > or even hate or fear or at least something was a motive when bones
> > without use as food are smashed to small pieces.
>
> Bones can get smashed to small pieces by simply the pressure/weight of
> overburden, there is no need to ascribe alternative behaviour to
> explain their presence in a site.
>

 The professionals can and I think you know that.
> Cheers,
>
> Su

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