Re: Shellfish Allergies Re: Grass or sand apes

From: Philip Deitiker (Donevenask_at_worlnet.att.net)
Date: 08/03/04 

Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 03:10:26 GMT

Su Solomon <susol@zemail.com> says in
news:410E2B36.4E95@zemail.com:

> Which is all very interesting, but Phil, it really begs the
> question.
>
> Acute (deadly) Shellfish allergic reactions are found in
> all people all round the world, but fortunately this is
> only a small percentage of the population.
 
> Now, is this acute allergic reaction a "mutation" that
> affects only those that carry that "mutant" gene and has
> been dealt with, in Darwinian terms over the generations,
> or is it something that has always been part of our genetic
> makeup? If the latter is the case, then postulating an
> Aquatic Origin for hominids (who would be eating shellfish
> as part of their survival strategy) would indicate that
> Darwinian selection didnt work.

I was trying to explain to you that there could be factors today
that trigger a reaction which may have been much less frequently
triggered in the past. This is my whole line of study,
tangentially, I look for triggers of autoimmune diseases.
The fact is that the prevelance of autoimmune diseases is
markedly on the rise and it parallels the rise in allergies and
asthma. I believe that gliadin may be partially responsible for
this rise, as stated earlier, but there are many other things
that have been discussed in the literature also.
  The point I need to make is other than the exposure of the
fatal allergan at the time of death, there are conditions that
lead to the fatal response, triggers. These things are complex
and make reflect the complexity of modern life.
 
> All the other foods you mentioned, are a very recent
> addition to our diets (only within the past few thousand
> years) and I agree, there are a number of problems
> associated with these foods that will continue to 'plague'
> the health of a great number of people. But as this
> problem does not appear to affect the reproductive success
> of the sufferers (the diseases associated with them taking
> a long time to take affect) am not too sure that this will
> arise in an evolutionary change.

You are dancing around the issue. Shellfish mounds from asia all
the way to the new world suggest very strongly that either
people had death wishes or that oysters were a very valuble
resource. Gliaden intolerance/gluten allergies have not stopped
Scandinavians from basing their grain culture on wheat.
Here is the deal, every culture must compete, they compete with
other cultures. If Scandinavians are less productive without
wheat than another culture in their place with wheat, then
eventually they would be displaced, they loose. Therefore they
must grow wheat and some percent will get sick and die,
eventually 0301/0302 & 0501/0201 will decline in that population
via selection on that little scrap of chromosome. IOW the
evolutionary reasoning they would forgo keeping part of the
genome so that the rest of their genes persist. HLA evolve fast
anyway so this is not an issue of genetic identity.
  This is different in central america, because corn is probably
a healthier crop than wheat, but there is social pressure from
the west to change, and the result may be future class warfare
and large scale rejection of western culture in societies with
high 0301/0302 levels. I think that this may have been one
factor in the case of the Ache if you already have corn, why
should you be forced to adopt a wheat culture?
  But in terms of shellfish middens in the new world. In the new
world it appears that south american settlers moved up from
south america and into eastern US after expanding within south
america. There may have been peoples who settled directly, but
there is a strong stream of 0301/0302 in the native peoples east
of the mississippi. Thus give middens in Japan, and given the
strongest node in the new world for people who share genetic
similarity with the Ryukyuans I would argue that shellfish
consumption for the first settlers to the new world was not a
problem, it was a means of survival and expansion. And when
those hunters finally came from wherever they came from, that
shellfish consumption kept the riparian/lagostrian/coastal
peoples from being displaced by a more technologically advanced
people. Now if those people had an intolerance to shellfish
greater than shellfish eaters, what do you think it would
balance the selective effect of new technology long enough for
the old guys to learn a few new tricks?
  It is not clear to me that shellfish eaters might not have
followed a trail of snails, grubby things, and clams all the way
from africa to the new world via indonesia. The only little
hangup I see would be along the aluetian chain where it would
seem likely to me, that these maritime travelers had moved on to
pelagic resources.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Shellfish Allergies Re: Grass or sand apes
    ... > Aquatic Origin for hominids (who would be eating shellfish ... Gliaden intolerance/gluten allergies have not stopped ... Scandinavians from basing their grain culture on wheat. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Shellfish Allergies Re: Grass or sand apes
    ... Most info on shell ... given people were shellfish specialist, ... Flu is a synsetizer for many allergies. ... >> But in terms of shellfish middens in the new world. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Shellfish Allergies Re: Grass or sand apes
    ... Most info on shell ... given people were shellfish specialist, ... Flu is a synsetizer for many allergies. ... >> But in terms of shellfish middens in the new world. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Shellfish Allergies Re: Grass or sand apes
    ... Your discussion with Philip where you say you know the ... >>difference between allergies and intolerance show this. ... >>between shellfish allergy and many others is that almost all who suffers ... >>asthma attacks react on the natural color in the shellfish, ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Shellfish Allergies Re: Grass or sand apes
    ... Your discussion with Philip where you say you know the ... >>difference between allergies and intolerance show this. ... >>between shellfish allergy and many others is that almost all who suffers ... >>asthma attacks react on the natural color in the shellfish, ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)