Re: Vegan A'piths?
From: Pauline M Ross (pmross_at_ross-software.co.uk)
Date: 09/08/04
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Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:04:40 +0100
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 01:18:28 GMT, "Bob Keeter" <rkeeter@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>Ah, yes, Pauline, you are back!
Yep, moved at last, if not totally unpacked yet.
>
>Couple of issues to consider. While it might be difficult to really pin
>that C4 concentration on meat eating in isolation, there might just be more
>"reasons" to consider the carnivorous route than the vegan route.
Perhaps. I would put it the other way - it would be difficult to pin
the C4 concentration on *non*-meat-eating alone; in other words, it's
hard to account for the C4 without including *some* meat in the mix,
even if it isn't *just* meat.
I keep coming back to the variation - some Apiths ate no C4 foods at
all, some ate as much as 60%. That's an awful lot of termites (or
sedges). It's easier to explain if at least some of the C4 component
is a high-energy food like meat, which would reduce the need for C3
foods.
[Snip]
>Now if you DO look at the apith teeth, do you see the teeth of a grazer?
>Do you see the teeth of a creature that could, with its dental machinery,
>actually deal with the tough shoots and rhizomes of sedges?
They don't show the characteristic wear patterns of grass-eaters, nor
(apparently) are they the right shape for regular meat-eaters. I don't
know what sort of teeth would be needed to eat sedge-roots, but most
roots are not particularly hard or abrasive in themselves.
[Snip]
>Its those "peripheral" issues that also have to "fit in" to the other
>hypotheses. For example, termites COULD be the source, but ONLY if those
>termites feasted mainly on grasses.
Yes, but remember the wide variation in C4 values - some populations
may have eaten a lot of (grass-eating) termites, others very little,
still others none at all, and most likely none of them got there C4
just from termites (or any other single food, for that matter).
>The teeth of a carnivorous ape dont have to match the teeth of a lion or
>tiger, they just have to be unsuitable for any other purpose! And as for
>human-like teeth being unsuitable for eating meat, Id suggest a quick
>consideration of the possibility that they might not be suitable for
>anything else in an apith's environment! Fruit and veggies? Yep, and
>probably a major component of an apith diet no matter what else they might
>have eaten, but no C4. Grasses and sedges, nope, but plenty of C4 but
>neither the teeth nor digestive tract required. Animals with a C4-rich diet
>(and that includes animals from proboscids to mice and insects), at least on
>the low end, most certainly!
I don't disagree with you here - it's highly likely that serious meat
(small to medium-sized) was on the menu for at least some populations,
but the shape of the teeth indicate (the Teaford/Ungar reference) that
it wasn't a staple food - an occasional high-energy bonanza, perhaps.
-- Pauline Ross
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