Re: Quote Mine: "The emperor has no clothes"--Hsu

From: Larry Moran (lamoran_at_bioinfo.med.utoronto.ca)
Date: 09/13/04 

Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 02:11:52 +0000 (UTC)

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:14:40 +0000 (UTC),
Cirbryn <Glen_Tarr@planet-save.com> wrote:
> lamoran@bioinfo.med.utoronto.ca (Larry Moran) wrote in message
> news:<slrnck6m6j.q17.lamoran@bioinfo.med.utoronto.ca>...

[snip]

>> That would be random genetic drift. Have you heard of it?
>
> Oh I've heard of it. It looked to me (based on the reinserted post)
> as if you were talking about evolution in the sense of species
> phylogenies rather than in the sense of allelic frequency changes
> over time. I also got the impression Gould thought (at least at one
> time) that selection was not the most important determinant of
> macroevolutionary change, and that inherent limits on mutation might
> be more important. My impression is that that never went very far
> because he wasn't able to adequately describe those limits, but since
> I know you to be a major Gould supporter I thought that might have
> been what you were getting at.

I don't believe that natural selection is the most important
determinant of macroevolutionary change. I think it's random genetic
drift. I also think that Gould makes a good case for species
selection/sorting at a level above that of populations.

It depends on what you mean by "macroevolution." If you mean the
minimum definition - speciation - then I think there's a general
consensus that drift plays an important role and natural selection
plays a less important role. Don't you agree?

Larry Moran

Relevant Pages

  • Re: ID leader (Behe) admits that astrology would be a scientifictheory if ID is
    ... >> with me that, in his words, "natural selection theory fails to explain ... Gould's 1980 "Is a new and general theory of evolution emerging?" ... 1972 and 1977 Gould and Eldredge on punk-eek and the fossil record ... >> ID as a metaphysical research program ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Gould criticism and reviews
    ... And I also find a discussion there of contingency, not chance. ... That's not what Gould is talking about when he talks about contingency. ... Nor does he claim that chance, or even contingency, has much to do with the rapid origin of new species in the Cambrian explosion. ... "Altered ecological status" is not a reference to the influence of natural selection. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Gould criticism and reviews
    ... Stasis was boring. ... we have a mountain of creationists ... Why Stephen Jay Gould is bad for evolution. ... Gould never said that any mechanism other than natural selection was needed for the rapid rate of appearance of new life forms. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Quote Mine: "The emperor has no clothes"--Hsu
    ... >> natural selection as a primary agent of evolution. ... >> the pattern cladists, Steele, and for a while Gould) denied it. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Natural selection and favorable traits how were they measured
    ... backspace wrote: ... drift plays some role). ... Thus natural selection is the cause because it results in something. ... your retort to my accusation of you playing silly word games is to play a silly word game? ...
    (talk.origins)