Re: Motives for writing to PAs about the AAH (Re: What is the Aquatic theory?
From: Algis Kuliukas (algis_at_RiverApes.com)
Date: 09/23/04
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Date: 23 Sep 2004 04:45:45 -0700
"Michael Clark" <biteme@spammer.com> wrote in message news:<k8adneK4CLdDjM_cRVnyjg@skypoint.com>...
> "J Moore" <anthrosciguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Igj4d.493585$gE.277787@pd7tw3no...
> > Marc Verhaegen <fa204466@skynet.be> wrote in message
> > news:41514e8a$0$11683$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
> [...]
> >> Luckily, unlike
> >> the short-sighted fools we see here at s.a.p, serious PAs are now open to
> >> the waterside hypothesis, eg, Stringer in this forum 14.9.01: "In the
> >> past
> I
> >> have agreed that we lack plausible models for the origins of bipedalism
> and
> >> have agreed that wading in water can facilitate bipedal locomotion (as
> >> observed in other normally quadrupedal primates). I have never said that
> >> this must have been the forcing mechanism in hominids, but I do consider
> it
> >> plausible. As for coastal colonisation, I argued in my Nature News &
> >> Views
> >> last year that this was an event in the late Pleistocene that may have
> >> facilitated the spread of modern humans."
> >>
> >> http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere.htm
> >>
> >> http://www.onelist.com/community/AAT
> >
> > Note that Marc is now claiming that humans cannot climb, news to my
> > granddaughter.
> > --
> > JMoore
>
> Yea, that Marco. He always likes to reference the email that I solicited
> from
> Stringer (included below) but always misses that last sentence. What were
> you saying about selective quotations? :-).
> At 08:32 PM 9/6/01 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >Dear Professor Stringer,
> >
> >You might like to look over the insert below. It is a post from the
> >Usenet newsgroup sci.anthropology.paleo. Marc Verhaegen, whose
> >pertinent websites are included with his sig file, has been including
> >your name as proof of mainstream support for his version of the Aquatic
> >Ape Theory (AAT). As you can see from the insert,
> >he also has been referencing the "Out There" Tobias article. I
> >have a personal communication from Professor
> >Tobias in which he categorically denies ever having said anything
> >in support of the AAT. He does say that
> >water, as a strategic resources, has been overlooked in
> >theoretical circles and seeks "a more objective
> >appraisal" of the claims made by the proponents of the AAT.
> >
> >I and the other readers of SAP would like to know:
> >
> >1.) What are your thoughts on Verhaegens' AAT as outlined at
> >http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/Verhaegen.html ?
> >
> >2.) How does wading, as you suggest in your quote, force bipedality?
> >IOW, what sorts of selective pressures are at work in a ~terrestrial~
> >primate while at the waters' edge? Or, like Marc Verhaegen, do you
> >favor an ~aquatic~ interlude at some time in our developmental history?
> >
> >Thank you very much for your time,
> >
> >Mike, Thanks. I am afraid I don't have a lot of time to spend on this.
> >In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models for the origins of
> >bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can facilitate bipedal
> >locomotion (as observed in other normally quadrupedal primates) . I have
> >never said that this MUST have been the forcing mechanism in hominids but
> >I do consider it plausible. As for coastal colonisation, I argued in my
> >Nature News & Views last year that this was an event in the late
> >Pleistocene that may have facilitated the spread of modern humans. But
> >adapting to coastal living is, of course, not the same as living IN the
> >water...Best Chris
>
> ******************************** Professor Chris Stringer, Head of Human
> Origins, Dept of Palaeontology,
> > __
> > For a scientific critique of the aquatic ape theory, go to
> > www.aquaticape.org
Well as we have tried to make clear now for years that the AAH never
suggested that humans LIVED in the water in any real sense this only
shows the level of misconception that exists. Chris Stringer seems to
think that's what the AAH was arguing and, as you are posting this
sentence as some kind of reproof for Marc, so do you.
I think Stringer makes his support for the wading idea quite clear.
So, what's your point? That he *didn't* say it *must* be the forcing
mechanism? Who would go that far about anything in human evolution?
That he didn't think adapting to coastal living is the same as living
in water? Big deal. We all knew that.
Is this the sort of press-hounding you wrote to Tobias? Why don't you
put that letter up on this newsgroup for public scrutiny too? Was it
because you deceived him into thinking youe were some kind of writer
about to do an article on fringe theories, perhaps, and don't want
people to see the depths you're happy to stoop to?
So, having written to these eminent people, why didn't you take their
advice? I mean Stringer's obviously got no problem with the wading
idea and Tobias makes it pretty clear (again in something I'd never
seen you quote before) that he seeks "a more objective appraisal" of
the claims made by the proponents of the AAT.
Just like your magnus opus hereo, Jim Moore, your agenda shines
through here, Michael. Like him, you are determined to portray this
idea in the worst possible light every time. Some scientific approach
that.
Algis Kuliukas
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