Re: Bipedal Orrorin?

From: Algis Kuliukas (algis_at_RiverApes.com)
Date: 10/16/04 

Date: 16 Oct 2004 03:29:55 -0700

jae@ucdavis.edu (Jason Eshleman) wrote in message news:<b7af43cb.0410151031.9a5b39e@posting.google.com>...
> rmacfarl@alphalink.com.au (Ross Macfarlane) wrote in message

[snip]

> > 1. Observe some aspect of the universe.
> > 2. Invent a tentative description, called a hypothesis, that is
> > consistent with what you have observed.
> > 3. Use the hypothesis to make predictions.
>
> It's right here where I see the greatest problems with what Algis is
> trying to pass as a hypothesis. The notion that some statement about
> water influencing us more than other apes is hopelessly vague in that
> there's no reason to believe that supporting one aspect supports the
> hypothesis in the whole. For example, if some pressure to wade was
> responsible in any way for changes that led to habitual obligate
> bipedalism, confirming this doesn't in any way strengthen a case that
> swimming led to our diminished degree of hair over most of our bodies.
> They are entirely separate hypotheses that require different data to
> address and confirming one doesn't confirm the other. The predictions
> of one are not the predictions of another and the insistence that
> together they're stronger is a fallacy.

That's fair criticism but my definition was meant to be as simple as
possible - a single statement which summed up the whole AAH in one
short paragraph. RM pulls me up for not attaching predictions to it
and JE's pulling me up for not dissecting it out. Fair enough. Perhaps
I should flesh it out more and actually write a paper behind it. But,
i stand by that definition as a simple, unambiguous starting point.

I asked RM and I'll ask you (even though i know you're not listening)
- where is the definition of the orthodox model? Where are its tests
and predictions defined? Where does it break them down into the level
of detail you require from me? I put it to you that there is no such
definition and that at least I've tried to make a start with the AAH.
 
> Undoubtedly, water has influenced H.sapiens, and perhaps our
> ancestors, in *different* ways than it has chimps or gorillas.

Ok. This is good. Can you take another step and accept that evolution
then played a part in *selecting* traits which helped that influence
manifest itself in different ways between humans and apes? If so,
which ways?

> Philip
> has voiced this rather reasonably in noting that humans have shown the
> ability to travel great distances over large bodies of water. Whether
> or not this accounts for any anatomical differences though isn't clear
> however.
>
> I have personally speculated (in peer reviewed publications in
> anthropology) that water was a large factor in the initial peopling of
> the Americas, arguing--and presenting original evidence--that a
> coastal route of entry is more in line with the evidence than an
> overland passage through an "ice free corridor." [I do not mean to
> pass this off as any original hypothesis of my own, though I do
> believe I've seen novel evidence to support the claim. Further, in
> review, there were comments that my data wasn't strong enough to
> confirm what I put forward, but never was there any reaction that it
> should be dismissed because I suggested water had anything to do with
> it.] If confirmed, it's an indication of how marine resources (and
> thus water) were utilized in a major migration of H.sapiens. But if
> confirmed, it doesn't confirm anything larger. It doesn't help
> address anything about hairlessness for swimming of bipedalism due to
> wading or speaking due to "breath control." It is important to note
> what a hypothesis addresses and does not address. It's my opinion
> that this among the most serious failings of AAXers and in large part
> makes what they try to do pseudoscience.

Of course since OoA II many humans have used coastal routes. This
doesn't prove that we're more aquatic than apes any more than it
proves that all of our undoubtedly improved swimming abilities evolved
at this late stage.

I realise that it doesn't show anything more (or less) than that.

[..]
> Not a paleo professional, but a professional physical anthropologist.
> My specialty is in molecular, specifically prehistoric DNA and
> migrations. My grad curriculum did cover significant paleo studies
> and I taught paleo for a number of years.

And, I'll say it again, I think I speak for everyone here when I
express my gratitude for your participation on this ng. I wish many
more professionals had the courage to do so. I have benefited (at
least at times) from your participation and I'm just sorry that you
still choose to stone wall me over a silly row of words over a year
ago.

Algis Kuliukas

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Bipedal Orrorin?
    ... > And if true, then it still remains undefined, because Algis' attempt ... > The hypothesis that water has acted as an agent of selection in the ... Use the hypothesis to make predictions. ... > as time has gone on, he has become less and less amenable to reason, ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: What is the Aquatic theory?
    ... They're a series of popular science think pieces, ... > likely to move through water. ... > apes, it stated, because they lived in the forest and our ancestors ... ahead, Algis, what's a savannah theory and where can I get some? ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Is the AAH a legitimate hypothesis? Of course it is.
    ... moving through water. ... Bipedalism from wading is just one of the predictions made by the AAH, ... crap science doesn't justify more crap science. ... They didn't define it but they were trying to get scientists to look at ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Bipedal Orrorin?
    ... "Algis Kuliukas" wrote in message ... > gibbons and bonobos would be obligate bipeds too, ... Being naked is a great help when you need to evaporate water ... out of the water and resume my obligate bipedalism as I strode ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Bipedal Orrorin?
    ... That isn't like you, Algis. ... > versus a biped in waist deep water. ... > bipedality that makes us better swimmers? ... >> If I needed to run, I wouldn't be fat. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
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