Re: Pierolapithecus - long fingers & arms are derived in apes (but not in humans)

From: Jim McGinn (jimmcginn_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 11/26/04 

Date: 26 Nov 2004 00:57:30 -0800

"Marc Verhaegen" <fa204466@skynet.be> wrote

> . . . our view that the early apes had rel.short arms
> (cf. humans & monkeys); that relative arm lengthening
> evolved in parallel in the different ape lineages
> (orang=gibbon>chimp>gorilla=human); that the KWing
> hands of chimps & gorillas are derived, as well as the
> suspensory hands of gibbons & orangs; that the early
> apes were palmigrade (cf. human infants, gibbons &
> sometimes orangs, as opposed to (KWing) chimps &
> gorillas); and that early hominoids were orthograde
> (IMO parttime wading). I have to adapt my description
> of early hominoid locomotion (replace "suspensory" by
> "vertically climbing"): "Hominids (chimps, humans &
> gorillas) & pongids (orangs) split probably ~15
> Ma. Miocene great ape fossils are found in coastal & swamp forests
> (Heliopith, Griphopith, Dryopith, Oreopith, Lufengpith). A vertical
> climbing+wading lifestyle in such flooded forests explains how they
> (starting from a more monkey-like body build: narrow thorax, above-branch
> locomotion.) lost the tail (unexpected in arboreal creatures), became much
> larger (idem) & late (possibly in parallel) developed truncal erectness
> (orthogrady) - features of apes, absent in most Old World monkeys (except,
> to a limited extent, in Nasalis: this mangrove-dweller is the largest
> colobine monkey, the only one with a short tail, it regularly wades on 2
> legs between mangrove trees, is a good swimmer, it sometimes climbs arms
> overhead). Pongids spread East along the Indian Ocean coasts. Hominids
> spread W & S along the Medit.& Red Seas. The African hominids that later
> went inland along rivers & lakes became the australopithecines & the African
> apes (chimps & gorillas)." In our paper M.Verhaegen, P-F.Puech & S.Munro
> 2002 "Aquarboreal ancestors?" Trends in Ecology & Evolution 17:212-7,
> "arm-hanging" should be replaced by "vertical climbing".

Marc, all you've done here is throw together a bunch of facts. How
they supposedly relate to one another and add up to some larger
meaning or point is not apparent. Marc, you really don't seem to have
a hypothesis. You just seem to want to just keep beating us over the
head with the evidence that indicates hominids are associated with
habitat in the vicinity of water. No duh. This has been generally
(though somewhat reluctantly and even begrudgingly) accepted by the
"experts," for over ten years now.

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