Re: Asian natural disaster or evolution in action?

From: Raymond Griffith (tiffirgrReverse_at_ctc.net)
Date: 01/02/05 

Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 09:28:15 -0500

in article 7v3ft0hjifpbk0qaab2jhs510ngstve98t@4ax.com, Al Klein at
rukbat@pern.invalid wrote on 1/2/05 1:17 AM:

> On 1 Jan 2005 10:16:49 -0800, roger_pearse@yahoo.co.uk said in
> alt.atheism:
>
>> Before this gets entirely out of hand, I think both sides might wish to
>> know that there is no date for the birthday of Mithras, or the Persian
>> Mitra, specified in any ancient text. I know that the idea that
>> Mithras was born on 25th December goes around. But it's not true.
>
> http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa122397b.htm ³Mithras,
> the sun-god, was born of a virgin in a cave on December 25, and
> worshipped on Sunday, the day of the conquering sun."
>
> http://www.takeourword.com/Issue022.html "Modern scholars believe
> that the cult of Mithras was based on the secret understanding of an
> astronomical phenomenon know as the "precession of the equinoxes",
> that is, the background of fixed stars is not really fixed. They knew
> that solar events such as solstices could be used to plot the movement
> of these stars. Also, as the days begin lengthening after the winter
> solstice, it is a time of new beginnings and hope for the future. Thus
> Mithras' birthday was set at the winter solstice, which is usually on
> December 22. However, due to the insertion of intercalary days (days
> inserted into the calendar to correct for accumulated error) and
> confusion with the Roman festival of Saturnalia, it has slipped to
> December 25."
>
>> 2. People who know that the Romans worshipped a deity called Sol
>> Invictus suppose that this day was a festival of Sol Invictus. This is
>> wrong: the cult was created in 274AD by Aurelian, while the name of the
>> day is primitive in Rome. The sun cult celebrated its festivals in
>> warmer weather!
>
> "Sol Invictus" was the Roman name for "Mithras". The Zoroastrian
> Mithras was the Sun god.
>
>> 4. One of them may have learned that Mithras is also sometimes called
>> Mithras Sol Invictus (Mithras the unconquered sun) and supposed that
>> this means Mithras=Sol Invictus (it does not).
>
> See above - it does.
>
> "When it comes to specifics, Christians are as deceitful and two faced
> as ever. They are utterly unable to deny that 25 December was the
> birthday of the Unconquerable Sun, the Roman name of Mithras. What
> they say is that it does not matter! Suddenly all Christians become
> fundamentalists because the New Testament does not say when Jesus was
> born. The church decided Jesus was born on 25 December precisely
> because it was already the highly popular birthday of Mithras, and a
> national holiday. What it was was the midwinter solstice, a solar
> festival and therefore associated with a solar god. The reason the
> Christian bishops were happy to accept this as a Christian festival
> was because Christianity was seen by everyone as a solar religion‹even
> the Christian bishops." - ibid

Actually, I was not able to find this last quote in either of your two
sources above. I would be interested in finding the source for this quote.
Would you please post the source?

But granting that you are quoting, nevertheless this attribution is not
true. I'm sorry, but your source is taking a small part of the history and
leaving out the rest. It is not deceitful to relegate to a minor position
those things which are relatively minor in relation to the rest.

As scientists, we go with the *weight* of the evidence. We insist to
creationists that this is good and reasonable, and that while there are
things we cannot explain adequately, those things are minor problems to be
worked on, but do not by themselves undermine the great weight of the
evidence we have.

There are similar issues with Christianity. For someone to insist that the
minor issues (which are often taken out of context) are *everything* is as
bad as a creationist insisting that because of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics
(which they take out of context) that evolution cannot happen. And just as
the creationist arguments based on the misunderstandings of minor issues
makes them look foolish, so does this kind of argument, based upon
misunderstandings of minor issues, make its author look foolish.

There does not need to be such a dynamic where the minor issues are so blown
out of proportion that they overwhelm the rest.

For a better perspective of the issue of the dating of Christmas, and indeed
the *many* different dates that were celebrated and their reasoning for
settling upon December 25, see the Catholic Encyclopedia.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm

Regards,

Raymond E. Griffith

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