Re: Oldest Remains of Modern Humans Are Identified

From: the Danimal (dmocsny_at_mfm.com)
Date: 02/18/05 

Date: 17 Feb 2005 16:36:47 -0800

Chris Devol wrote:
> "the Danimal" <dmocsny@mfm.com> wrote in message
> news:1108679009.066006.136490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Chris Devol wrote:
> >> This is called the scientific method.
> >
> > Is that what the Vedas call it?
>
> Yes. They refer to science as "vijnana", and to the scientific method
as
> "sambandha, abhideya, prayojana"

What do they call the inverse-square principle? Tensors?
Differential equations? Quarks? Etc.? I would like to know
the Vedic words for all these things. What does the Vedic
version of the Periodic Table look like?

Too bad Asimov did not live long enough to write a Guide
to Vedic Science.

> > Did the scientific revolution in Europe begin when medieval
scholars
> > found old copies of the Vedas sitting in some library?
>
> No. It began when Brahma, the creator of this universe, attended a
lecture
> by the Supreme Scientist, Lord Sri Krishna, some 150 trillion years
ago.

"Some" 150 trillion years ago? Have Brahma or Krishna had
difficulty keeping track of time?

A trillion years here, a trillion years there; pretty soon you're
talking real time.

I'm also curious about how stable the "year" has been for the
past 150 trillion years. It's possible for astronomers to
measure very slight changes in orbital periods. 150 trillion
years is a long time; long enough for the Sun to have orbited the
galactic core many times, and for other star systems to have
passed nearby (in astronomical terms) and perturb the planetary
orbits in our solar system.

> > Did the scientific revolution actually occur first in India?
>
> No, but India has retained the knowledge in a more complete form than
any
> other culture.

Explain why India was several decades late to join the
nuclear club, then.

> >> > Plato would have said it constitutes opinion or belief, but not
> > knowledge.
> >> > Kant would have agreed. Come to think of it, so would John
Stuart
> > Mill and
> >> > most of the rest. That excludes Descartes.
> >
> > I wonder what they would say if they were alive today? I can
imagine
> > if I came back to life 500 years from now, after getting up to
speed
> > I might revise a few of my present opinions.
> >
> > Knowledge of religious beliefs is just that: knowledge of religious
> > beliefs. It is "knowledge" just as knowledge of poker, or music is
> > "knowledge."
>
> Knowledge of how matter works is just that, knowledge of how matter
works.
> It is "knowledge" just as knowledge of football, or oil painting is
> "knowledge".

Yes, except that it's possible to change what is knowledge of
football, oil painting, or poker and still be just as correct
as always. You just persuade all the footballers, painters, and
card sharks to change their rules. Nature seems less amenable
to persuasion.

> > As to whether religious knowledge is a productive way to obtain
> > knowledge about how nature works, well---one only has to look
around
> > one's house and see how many of those clever artifacts came from
> > any religion.
>
> You mean atomic bombs, sarin gas, methamphetamine, crack babies,
smog, toxic
> waste dumps, and in general all the world destroying "clever
artifacts"
> produced by the religion of scientolatry?

That depends. Can one look around one's house and see those
things?

I don't have many of them in my house, although each morning
I do deposit a pretty toxic waste dump.

And speaking of world destroying artifacts, why are you reading
my words on one just now?

> >> Knowledge always becomes opinion and belief. So does ignorance.
> > Therefore,
> >> calling something "opinion" or "belief" or "dogma" does not say
very
> > much.
> >
> > Belief is an emotion; therefore, the sky is the limit. With enough
> > effort (or perhaps laziness) a person can believe almost anything.
>
> That is your belief. My guess is, you arrived at it through laziness
rather
> than effort.

Actually I arrived at it by noting the diversity of the world's
religions and other popular beliefs. It's hard to think of anything
that would really be unbelievable to everyone.

Some laziness would have been at work there, because of course
I did not actually go out and interview everyone in detail about
their beliefs. But it seems clear enough that lots of people
believe lots of very different things. Do you doubt this?

Belief is clearly an emotion. We "feel" that things are true.
Who is not aware of such feelings?

When you hear someone saying things you know to be true, you
probably feel different emotions than when you hear someone
saying things you think are wildly untrue. You probably
experience different emotions while reading my articles than
you feel while reading the Vedas.

Sometimes our feelings turn out to be correct, and sometimes
they turn out to be wrong. Ask any gambler.

> > Knowledge, on the other hand, must exhibit some sort of
orderliness.
> > If I claim to have knowledge of poker rules, for example, I should
be
> > able to answer questions about which of several poker hands wins.
> > If my knowledge of poker is "wrong," I won't be much fun to play
with.
>
> And if your knowledge of religion is wrong, as it is, you won't be
much help
> in assessing its value.

No, I would be of no help in answering questions about the doctrinal
details of a religion, which is quite distinct from assessing
its value.

You don't have to know anything much about how automobiles work,
for example, to decide whether you think a particular automobile
is worth its asking price. You can determine the value of things
without much knowledge about them. You only have to be able to
sense how they seem to be impacting your emotional state.

Most people have even less knowledge of how people work, but
we can all perceive more value in some people than in others.

Assessing the value of things to other people is trickier, but
not out of the question.

> > Poker is a made-up game which does not claim to reflect any
external
> > reality.
> >
> > Religion is a made-up game which does claim to reflect an external
> > reality. And, in fact, the religions I am familiar with each claim
> > exclusivity on this type of knowledge.
>
> That is a made up statement which reflects only your own ignorance of

> external reality.

I am aware of one religion which tried to claim all other religions
were correct, but I think that is an exception. Judging from the
Hindus burning mosques and the Muslims burning Hindu temples in
India, I'd say each side believes the other has a few things wrong.

-- the Danimal

Relevant Pages

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