Re: When did the aquatic ape (AA) phase begin in our history?

From: Rich Travsky (_at_hotmMOVEail.com)
Date: 02/27/05 

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:54:22 -0700

Marc Verhaegen wrote:
>
> "Rich Travsky" <" traRvEsky"@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message
> news:4218F9AB.9E6C4E13@hotmMOVEail.com...
> > Marc Verhaegen wrote:
> >>
> >> "Rich Travsky" <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:4208FE34.2C471B8D@hotmMOVEail.com...
> >>
> >> >> When did the aquatic ape (AA) phase begin in our history?
> >>
> >> > We're still waiting for that...
> >>
> >> Ah?
> >> So far I have seen no good objections that we can schematically discern
> >> different waterside phases:
> >> 0) early catarrhines c 30-25 Ma predom.arboreal (above-branch climbing)
> >> in
> >> tropical forests in Africa-Arabia,
> >> 1) early hominoids c 20-15 Ma aquarboreal (above-branch climbing +
> >> surface-swimming?) in coastal forests (Tethys Sea...),
> >> 2) early hominids c 10-5 Ma aquarboreal (erect trunk, plantigrady,
> >> predom.vertical climbing & wading?) in Africa (less forested?),
> >> 3) early Homo c 2-1 Ma: diving-wading-walking (long legs, straight body,
> >> ext.nose, brain++, loss of climbing) African & S.Asian coasts,
> >> 4) early sapiens c 200-100 ka: less confined to the waterside (Africa?),
> >> walking & running on land.
> >
> > Ah? Still don't have anything to support your claims?
>
> Ah? Still too lazy to inform a bit? or too stupid to understand??
>
> - AAT-1 = Aquarboreal Apes Theory = hominoid evolution:
>
> Hominids (chimps, humans & gorillas) & pongids (orangs) split probably ~15
> Ma, in the Miocene. Miocene great ape fossils are found in coastal & swamp
> forests, eg, Heliopith ~17 Ma, Griphopith 16-14, Oreopith ~8, Lufengpith
> ~12, Dryopith ~10 Ma. A vertical climbing+wading lifestyle in such flooded
> forests explains how they (starting from a more monkey-like body build:
> narrow thorax, above-branch locomotion.) lost the tail (unexpected in
> arboreal creatures), became much larger (idem) & late (possibly in parallel)
> developed truncal erectness (orthogrady) - features of apes, absent in most
> Old World monkeys (except, to a limited extent, in Nasalis: this
> mangrove-dweller is the largest colobine monkey, the only one with a short
> tail, it regularly wades on 2 legs between mangrove trees, is a good
> swimmer, it sometimes climbs arms overhead). The early apes were often
> thick-enameled & possibly used tools, IOW, they were durophagous
> frugi-omnivores: the diet included hard-shelled fruits, nuts, mangrove
> oysters etc. Pongids spread East along the Indian Ocean coasts. Hominids
> spread W & S along the Medit.& Red Seas. The African hominids that later
> went inland along rivers & lakes became the australopithecines & the African
> apes (chimps & gorillas). M.Verhaegen, P-F.Puech & S.Munro 2002 "Aquarboreal
> ancestors?" Trends in Ecology & Evolution 17:212-7.
> http://reviews.bmn.com/journals/atoz/latest?pii=S0169534702024904&node=TOC%40%40TREE%40017%4005%40017_05
> - AAT-2 = Amphibious Ancestors Theory = Homo evolution:
>
> Alister Hardy ("Was Man more aquatic in the past?" NS 1960) described how a
> sea-side life - beach-combing, wading, swimming, collecting coconuts,
> shellfish, turtles & turtle eggs, bird eggs, crabs, seaweeds etc. - explains
> many human traits (absent in our nearest relatives the chimps) a lot better
> than dry savanna scenarios do: very large brain (reduced olfactory bulb
> though), greater breathing control & greater diving skills, small mouth &
> masticatory reduction (myosine MYH16), well-developed vocality, extreme
> handiness & tool use, reduction of climbing skills, reduction of fur, more
> subcutaneous fat, very long legs, more linear body build, reduction of
> olfactory sense, late puberty, high needs of iodine, sodium &
> poly-unsaturated fatty acids etc. Hardy was wrong in thinking his seaside
> phase happened ~10 Ma. More likely it happened during the Ice Ages: early
> Pleistocene Homo fossils or tools have been found in Israel, Algeria, Iran,
> Kenya, Georgia, Java, always near shellfish & seas & large bodies of water.
> When sea levels dropped, H.ergaster followed the Mediterranean
> (pre-antecessor-neandertals) & Indian Ocean coasts (erectus). Pleistocene
> coasts during the glacial periods were some 120 m below the present sea
> level, so many fossil & archeological finds show the inland Homo populations
> that entered the continents along the rivers & wetlands. In spite of this,
> Homo remains (but not australopithecine) have frequently been found amid
> shells, corals, barnacles etc., throughout the Pleistocene, in coasts all
> over the Old World (eg, Mojokerto, Terra Amata, Table Bay, Eritrea), even on
> islands that could only be reached by sea (Flores 0.8 Ma).
>
> So far, no good arguments against these ideas have been forwarded.

Just so stories. Grow up Marc.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: When did the aquatic ape (AA) phase begin in our history?
    ... Miocene great ape fossils are found in coastal & swamp ... > oysters etc. Pongids spread East along the Indian Ocean coasts. ... > handiness & tool use, reduction of climbing skills, reduction of fur, more ... so many fossil & archeological finds show the inland Homo populations ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • seaside & bone marrow (Re: born to run
    ... In fact though, most early hominid fossils ... Our seaside scenario is not about "hominids" (apiths have nothing to do ... No doubt, at least some early Homo lived at the beach, eg, how else did ... "fossils not concentrated at coasts", OK, but Pleistocene coasts are ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • savanna evasions (Re: Is Oreopithicus the Aquatic Ape Link?
    ... olfactory bulb reduction), improved breathing control & diving skills, ... early Homo followed the Mediterranean & Indian Ocean coasts: ... In spite of sea level changes, ... barnacles etc., throughout the Pleistocene, in coasts all over the Old World ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Anyone want to discuss paleoanthropology?
    ... (apes evolved longer ilia in parallel), ... apes to the homo line. ... Pierola+Dryopiths were probably hominids-pongids, possibly hominids. ... more-homo-like fossils have yet been found. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • both aquatic and savannah?
    ... For Homo fossils see below. ... was recovered from deposits of the Hadar ... and divers as well as marine birds ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)