Re: New Ethiopian Find - Oldest Biped At 3.8-4 mya

From: Algis Kuliukas (algis_at_RiverApes.com)
Date: 03/17/05 

Date: 16 Mar 2005 21:05:39 -0800

"JAE" <jae@ucdavis.edu> wrote in message news:<1110989307.278539.171630@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>...
> Algis Kuliukas wrote:
> > JAE wrote:
> > > I really think you should figure out what a double standard is.
> > Here's
> > > a hint: saying your data are as good in evaluating differences
> > between
> > > different forms of locomotion, though you only measured one form
> and
> > > another study actually measured more than one is a double standard.
> >
> > Erm, when did I say that, Jason? When did I say my "data are as good
> in
> > evaluating differences between different forms of locomotion"? If I
> had
> > said something like that, you'd have lashed out like an adolescent
> > school kid high on testosterone for the first time. I'm saying my
> data
> > shows that human bipedalism is only efficient in certain substrates.
> > Therefore the substrates through which early bipeds walked is
> important
> > in evaluating if energy efficiency was a driver. See? It's not what
> > you're trying to twist.
>
> Since you concluded that "efficiency doesn't work" on other substrates
> from your data, thereby saying that on other substrates it was less
> efficient than other forms, I believe it was implied that you were
> using your data to make this conclusion. I suspect here I gave you too
> much credit and in fact, you weren't doing anything other than
> asserting what Algis believes independent of actual evidence. Are you
> now saying that indeed your data aren't as good for evaluating the
> difference? Are you now admitting that indeed your data don't address
> this issue and in fact like so often your grand pronoucements are more
> akin to the stuff that drops out of your anus?

I stand by the point I made at the beginning and have repeated many
times: Human bipedal efficiency only really works in certain flat,
firm and relatively vegetation-free substrates. As the substrate
becomes less perfect the efficiency gets worse. It's clearly due to
our inverted pendulum gait and this can only be practiced in certain
places.

As apes do not do the inverted pendulum gait I think it is reasonable
to assume that they would be less effected, efficiency-wise, by
walking in less-than-perfect substrates than we are.
 
> "Efficient" is relative. You appear to be using it as absolute. The
> statement that bipedalism is efficient in certain substrates is
> meaningless without external reference on those substrates.

I know and I've given that relative data several times. Walking in
tall grass is a lot more expansive than walking on concrete.

> Your data,
> which, given the relative honesty of the rest of your postings
> recently, given that it hasn't been reviewed and we've only got the
> word of Algis Kuliukis that it is what it is, the same Algis Kuliukis
> grandly known for positing grand conclusions without data or
> comparisons at all, is probably not warranted. But giving you the
> benefit of the doubt that you've actually performed the study,
> performed it in such a way and with sufficient control as to get good,
> meaningful data, you still have no comparison to assert that we are not
> efficient as compared with other forms of locomotion. Your notion that
> your data is "just as good" when it doesn't address the comparison that
> you deny that others have demonstrated, is positively absurd and it
> again strikes me that you've got not the first notion as to what you're
> doing.

If had made anything like those sort of allegations against you, I
know what the response would have been...

When the study is complete I'll send you a copy then you can show my
how impartial you are with your feedback. How's that?

Algis Kuliukas

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Is the AAH a legitimate hypothesis? Of course it is.
    ... It is based on simple empiricle experiemntal evidence that anyone can ... Measure VO2 from walking on various substrates ... Algis Kuliukas ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: New Ethiopian Find - Oldest Biped At 3.8-4 mya
    ... Algis Kuliukas wrote: ... substrates. ... >> asserting what Algis believes independent of actual evidence. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Alternating gait
    ... >> Human bipedalism seems to have evolved in two phases. ... >> was not to do with energy efficiency, ... > heh heh ... Algis Kuliukas ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Alternating gait
    ... > Algis Kuliukas wrote: ... >> Human bipedalism seems to have evolved in two phases. ... >> was not to do with energy efficiency, ... > heh heh ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)