Re: opening oysters with stone tools?

From: Marc Verhaegen (fa204466_at_skynet.be)
Date: 03/28/05 

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:19:40 +0200

"Rich Travsky" <" traRvEsky"@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message
news:42479AC7.96BE9C29@hotmMOVEail.com...
> Marc Verhaegen wrote:
>>
>> Yes, Travsky, there are now also examples of capuchin tool use in dry
>> forests, yes. What do we have now? Tool use: Capuchins: mangrove & dry
>> forests. Orangs: wet forests. Chimps: wet & dry forests. Humans:
>> everywhere.
>> Sea otters: littoral. Does this detracts from our TREE paper IYO?
>
> Since water is not needed, it doesn't support it. oki doki?

Yes, my boy. Don't evade. Still too stupid to give us an argupment against
our TREE paper??
________

>> "Rich Travsky" <" traRvEsky"@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message
>> news:42223A58.E1FDF95C@hotmMOVEail.com...
>> > Marc Verhaegen wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Rich Travsky" <" traRvEsky"@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:421EADEE.FA91445C@hotmMOVEail.com...
>> >> > Marc Verhaegen wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "r norman" <rsn_@_comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:4smn11d5r84o2rf8dihf6rhfighfv6ekpr@4ax.com...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Thanks for the answers, but could somebody tell me whether you
>> >> >> >>can
>> >> >> >>use
>> >> >> >>stone tools (esp.Oldowan, Acheulian) to open oysters (apart from
>> >> >> >>hammering)?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Are fresh oysters available in Belgium? You can buy them at our
>> >> >> > (USA)
>> >> >> > supermarkets, even those in Michigan -- far from the ocean. Buy
>> >> >> > a
>> >> >> > dozen
>> >> >> > and try to open them! I have real difficulty even with an
>> >> >> > "official"
>> >> >> > oyster knife. I can't imagine flint being made thin enough to
>> >> >> > get
>> >> >> > into
>> >> >> > even a small gap in the shell. Obsidian is far too brittle. But
>> >> >> > then
>> >> >> > I
>> >> >> > have virtually no experience shucking clams or oysters and
>> >> >> > absolutely
>> >> >> > none
>> >> >> > in making or using stone tools.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> With an oyster knife it isn't difficult. Yes, stone tools might be
>> >> >> not
>> >> >> thin
>> >> >> enough & too brittle. Could a pointed stone do? I always wonder how
>> >> >> little
>> >> >> monkeys like capuchins do it.
>> >> >
>> >> > How?
>> >> >
>> >> > From
>> >> >
>> >> > http://canis.tamu.edu/wfscCourses/Concepts/Task1JA.html
>> >> > ANNOTATED REFERENCE LIST: TOOL USE
>> >> > J. M. Aguiar, STEELSHARD@TAMU.EDU
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Excerpts
>> >> >
>> >> > Anderson, J. R. 1990. Use of objects as hammers to open nuts by
>> >> > capuchin
>> >> > monkeys (Cebus apella). Folia Primatologica 54: 138-145.
>> >> >
>> >> > Keywords: capuchins, feeding, hammers, individual innovation
>> >> >
>> >> > A splendid, exciting paper to read: Anderson describes one captive
>> >> > family
>> >> > of capuchins using stone tools to break open a variety of nuts in an
>> >> > experimental context. In addition to presenting data on the typical
>> >> > tool
>> >> > use devised by the family, Anderson also describes how Casp, a young
>> >> > capuchin female, learns the technique in a cultural context-and how,
>> >> > in
>> >> > a
>> >> > surprise move, she invents a new technique that her family quickly
>> >> > learns
>> >> > from her. I've never cheered at a scientific paper before, but Casp
>> >> > reminds us of the vital role that individual innovation plays in
>> >> > technological evolution.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Fernandes, M. E. B. 1991. Tool use and predation of oysters
>> >> > (Crassostrea
>> >> > rhizophorae) by the tufted capuchin, Cebus apella apella, in
>> >> > brackish-water
>> >> > mangrove swamp. Primates 32(4): 529-531.
>> >> >
>> >> > Keywords: capuchin, oysters, feeding, hammer, mangrove, adaptive
>> >> > benefit
>> >> >
>> >> > Herein the description of a tufted capuchin perched on a mangrove
>> >> > root,
>> >> > hammering open oysters with a broken-off section of the oyster
>> >> > colony
>> >> > itself. Although this account only deals with a single observation,
>> >> > Fernandes suggests that this behavior-essentially an aquatic version
>> >> > of
>> >> > nut-cracking-is a natural result of the capuchin's adaptability to a
>> >> > wide
>> >> > range of habitats. This is especially important in a mangrove swamp,
>> >> > or
>> >> > mangal, a harsh environment which only a few vertebrates are capable
>> >> > of
>> >> > exploiting. Under such conditions the ability to use tools is a
>> >> > vital
>> >> > advantage, and the capuchin's flexibility-including its ability to
>> >> > use
>> >> > a
>> >> > part of the oyster colony itself as the hammer, since the mangal has
>> >> > no
>> >> > stones-may explain why, out of the primates of the region, the
>> >> > capuchin
>> >> > is
>> >> > the mangal's only permanent resident. What clearer example could be
>> >> > found
>> >> > of the adaptive benefit of tool use?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Visalberghi, E. 1990. Tool use in Cebus. Folia Primatologica 54:
>> >> > 146-154.
>> >> >
>> >> > Keywords: capuchins, pounding, cognition
>> >> >
>> >> > An extensive review of recorded instances of tool use in capuchin
>> >> > monkeys
>> >> > dating back at least to 1794 and Charles Darwin's literary
>> >> > grandfather
>> >> > Erasmus Darwin. While Visalberghi's review is exhaustive, she
>> >> > consistently
>> >> > interprets capuchin tool use with a rather pessimistic view towards
>> >> > their
>> >> > mental capacities, especially as far as their ability to grasp the
>> >> > connections between tool, target, and the correct motions that
>> >> > profitably
>> >> > link the two. Visalberghi cites other papers in this survey, such as
>> >> > Anderson (1990), but seems to draw very different conclusions than
>> >> > I.
>> >> > She
>> >> > is especially critical of the repeated errors and apparently
>> >> > haphazard
>> >> > pounding behavior some sources report for capuchin tool use, and yet
>> >> > I
>> >> > can't help but wonder-how many humans hit snack machines?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Westergaard, G. C., J. A. Greene, M. A. Babitz, and S. J. Suomi.
>> >> > 1995.
>> >> > Pestle use and modification by tufted capuchins (Cebus apella).
>> >> > International Journal of Primatology 16(4): 643-651.
>> >> >
>> >> > Keywords: capuchins, feeding, mortar and pestle
>> >> >
>> >> > Certainly the most rigorous (and rigorously reported) experiments on
>> >> > tool
>> >> > use I've read so far. Westergaard is strong on experimentation and
>> >> > has
>> >> > provided excellent data on capuchins' tool use in controlled
>> >> > laboratory
>> >> > conditions. While I have recurring problems with the ultimate
>> >> > validity
>> >> > of
>> >> > any broad conclusions not drawn from capuchins in their natural
>> >> > habitat,
>> >> > this is still a fascinating addition to their range of tool use
>> >> > behaviors.
>> >> > Their use of nominal mortar-and-pestle tools recalls not only the
>> >> > palm-pounding of chimpanzees of Sugiyama (1994) but also the actual
>> >> > mortar-and-pestle use by chimpanzees asserted by one of the
>> >> > Portuguese
>> >> > adventurers in Sept and Brooks (1994). The authors also tried
>> >> > something
>> >> > that I have yet to see in any other tool-use paper: they tested
>> >> > their
>> >> > own
>> >> > bare hands and nominal tools on the same sugarcane they gave their
>> >> > capuchins!
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > (this next reference appears to have some missing bits on the web
>> >> > page)
>> >> >
>> >> > and S. J. Suomi. 1994. The use and modification of bone tools by
>> >> > capuchin
>> >> > monkeys. Current Anthropology 35(1): 75-77.
>> >> >
>> >> > Keywords: capuchins, bone tools, tool modification chisels, hammers
>> >> >
>> >> > Another intriguing report of innovative tool use by capuchin monkeys
>> >> > in
>> >> > an
>> >> > experimental setting. This report presents several firsts seen in
>> >> > animal
>> >> > tool users: the first use of bone tools, the first modification of
>> >> > bone
>> >> > tools, and-in my view the most important-the first use of two tools
>> >> > in
>> >> > a
>> >> > concerted fashion, by striking one fragment of bone against another
>> >> > held
>> >> > to the target, which the authors compare to "chisels and hammers."
>> >> > Unlike
>> >> > the consecutive but separate use of tools by chimpanzees in Sugiyama
>> >> > (1994)
>> >> > above (frond-hammer and then fiber-sponge), here at least one
>> >> > capuchin
>> >> > has
>> >> > combined two perfectly good tools into a tool construct, far
>> >> > surpassing
>> >> > my
>> >> > own expectations of what these primates are capable of. Really
>> >> > amazing!
>> >> > As
>> >> > a general point, I've been skeptical of the broader implications of
>> >> > these
>> >> > controlled-environment studies-just because a flexible mind
>> >> > discovers a
>> >> > new
>> >> > approach in captivity doesn't mean it occurs as an individual or
>> >> > cultural
>> >> > behavior in the wild. But the authors turn the point around, by
>> >> > suggesting
>> >> > that tool use observed in captivity can put researchers on the alert
>> >> > for
>> >> > similar uses in the wild.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Appears to be little more than pounding...
>> >>
>> >> Yes, with other oysters. They seem to need a lot of power. Amazing for
>> >> such
>> >> small animals. It probably takes a lot of time before they can open an
>> >> oyster. Thanks for the list.
>> >
>> > http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0401/resources_geo2.html
>> > ...
>> > The monkeys, brown capuchins (Cebus apella), tool around in a remote
>> > dry
>> > forest in northeastern Brazil. After laying tough-shelled palm nuts on
>> > sandstone slabs, the monkeys stand upsometimes using their tails for
>> > supportraise rocks perhaps half their own weight head high, then slam
>> > the nuts. Not content with any old hammer, the monkeys will haul a
>> > favorite rock to the "anvil" site, says photographer Pete Oxford. They
>> > also place nuts in small pits from previous hammering and sniff them
>> > between strikes to see if the kernel is exposed yet. Older capuchins
>> > are
>> > the best nut crackers, but young ones also try their hand.
>> >
>> > "These monkeys are acting in ways we once thought only apes did," says
>> > primatologist Dorothy Fragaszy of the University of Georgia, who plans
>> > to
>> > study the monkeys' tool use in detail.
>> >
>> > And since capuchins are only distantly related to apes, she says, their
>> > ability must have evolved independently.
>> >
>> > "Their Schwarzenegger dead lift is amazing to see," says Charles Munn,
>> > a
>> > zoologist with Tropical Nature (a nonprofit ecotourism group) who first
>> > learned of the hammer wielders from locals. "But it's no surprise the
>> > monkeys have to work hard to get food in such a marginal, scrubby
>> > habitat."
>> >
>> > Small pic is at
>> >
>> > http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0401/images/hm_smarts_pic2.jpg
>> >
>> > A stone tool kit does not appear to be needed for a littoral lifestyle
>> > and
>> > does not appear to provide motivation for it.
>> >
>> > Gona, 2.5 mya, OTOH...

Relevant Pages

  • Re: opening oysters with stone tools?
    ... >>> Yes, Travsky, there are now also examples of capuchin tool use in dry ... Prev by Date: ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Savanna experts (Re: H.erectus endurance running makes sense
    ... dry, ... well watered and well treed at the time they were lain down. ... in the lake margin zone ca. 1 km from the paleo-lake ... distance the Hadza camp away from water sources today. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Smell of rat urine in attic
    ... I'd set out rat traps to control them and they've been ... water down the drain in hopes of clearing the drain. ... tomorrow and the weather here is warm and dry, and with a big fan in the ... My problem at the moment is the smell, ...
    (alt.home.repair)
  • Re: Putting Concrete over Mud
    ... It sounds as if water ponds and holds. ... I am on a farm where I have horses. ... The problem is I dont see this mud getting really dry ...
    (alt.home.repair)
  • Re: Dry and worrying outlook
    ... I have been commissioned recently by water companies to ... of rain water in my garden for summer use from rain falling on to sheds and ... Many really dry years are ended by a fairly wet spell like 1976 or 1714. ...
    (uk.sci.weather)