Re: A critique of the BBC aquatic ape programme and the transcript.

Lee Olsen wrote:
>
> Su Solomon wrote:
> > Lee Olsen wrote:
> > >
> > > Algis Kuliukas wrote:
> > > > Su Solomon wrote:
> > > > > Algis Kuliukas wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > spiznet wrote:
> > > > > > > You probly won't be this lucky again.
> > > > > > > Did you just get back from Ed's Kookaburra Ranch & Grill, or what is
> > > > > > > the true story here...?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ross, don't you think those salty crocs gonna eat up little hominids
> > > > > > > real fast if they start fooling around in the water instead of acting
> > > > > > > like a petrified antelope, all alert and worried and furtive, drink
> > > > > > > fast and run away...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No salties in E Africa,
> > > > >
> > > > > Crocodylus niloticus
> > > >
> > > > http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herpetology/brittoncrocs/csp_cpor.htm
> > > >
> > > > > > I'm afraid. The crocs of the Awash are known to
> > > > > > be rather benign.
> > > > >
> > > > > On what authority are you claiming this?
> > > >
> > > > Johanson et al (1981:151)
> > >
> > > And the reason these particular crocs were "rather benign" is because
> > > of their "smaller" size ( Johanson and Edey 1981:151). Crocs understand
> > > size pecking-order very well. One reason for the smaller size and
> > > timid behavior of these particular crocs, I suspect, is:
> > >
> > > http://www.geocities.com/akababi/wildlife.htm
> > > "All adult males of the Dankalia Afar, Issa, Keraiyu and Ito peoples,
> > > carry AK47's and are recently reported to be killing "a few" animals
> > > for food. All carnivores are shot on sight."
> > >
> > > I would like to see some croc size data during the Plio/Pleistocene for
> > > that area, and I know there were no AK47s around in those days to
> > > discourage them. If crocs were anything like many of the other
> > > predators 4-6 million years ago, Johanson's group or Lucy wading in
> > > the Awash during the Plio/Pleistocene would have ended up looking like
> > > this:
> > > http://home.att.net/~crinaustin/Croc.htm
> >
> >
> > Plenty of crocs at Olduvai, ask OH7
>
> Yes, I've seen Mary Leakey's drawings of the Olduvai beds, very
> impressive, must be a message there somewhere.
>
> Johanson stated the large killer-crocs lived elsewhere than the Awash.

Yeah, Lake Turkana : ) Where I have seen some nastie big ones, up
close and personal.

Mind you, its amazing how people can delude themselves into believing
the impossible! And I would put the: "nah I wont get taken by a croc,
'cause the crocs are small and not there etc. into the class called:
'logical fantasies". This can be believed by the most "intelligent"
people, including Johanson! I was doing a dig at Alia Bay (south of
Koobi Fora) in '87, and each afternoon when we finished for the day, we
would go down to the shores of Lake Turkana and have a wash. People
("intelligent white people") would throw themselves in the water and
swim and wash, I stayed at the back in knee deep water, praying that if
there were any crocs around at the time, they would take the stupid
"B's" who were further out!

Only 6 weeks previously I had gone by boat from Koobi Fora to Fergusons
Gulf (West Turkana) and I saw, just south of Alia Bay, not far from
Loyangalani, an amazing number of very big crocs, 20 to 25 'footer'
ones.

And if you want to see some really big ones, up close, then have a look
at the croc farm at Victoria Falls.

The resemblance between these African crocs and our own Salties was
stunning. Though the Salties can grow to be much larger - 28 to 32
footers, the niloticus is not far behind in size. When you are taken
by a croc it really doesnt make much difference if the croc is 25 or 32
foot long, you are still dead!


> Were the crocs at Olduvai large man-eater size, or Awash size?

Going by the teeth that were found there, they were the BIG buggers!


> Next problem is whether they were always small in the Awash. Are crocs
> like gold fish, ie., little fish for little ponds and big fish for big
> lakes?

No, when the water dries up, the crocs get up and march away overland,
till they find bigger stretches of water, they have been known to walk
distances up to 50 miles. (I will have to check my notes on this, its
5am here and -8°C and my files are in the 'freezing' sunroom, and I am
not going out there yet : )

Remember, that a croc's (salties and the nile) principal diet is fish -
mammals (including us) are the icing on the cake! So, you really wont
find crocs living in waters that are fish free. The Awash has fish, so
there will be crocs.


Cheers,

Su

> > http://www.une.edu.au/Arch/Publications/Taphon.html
.

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