AAT is based on comparative data (Re: Algis ranting about AAH

"Lee Olsen" <paleocity@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1124628819.445067.96450@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> > > >Do you really believe that Homo got to Java over your savanna?? :-D

> > > That's what Dennell said.

> > Yes, those biases... They can people make tell everything...

> Biases like: "1.8-Ma Homo remains come from Algeria, Iran, Kenya, Georgia,
Java... always near lakes or seas (R.Dennell 2003 JHE 45:421);..." Message
ID 42e54fa7$0$6141$ba620e4c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx This erroneous piece of
information you believe from Dennell (or did you mis-quote Dennell-I see no
quotation marks here, maybe you ought recheck to see if he actually said
that),

Haven't you read the paper? Well, although Dennell is biased by the 'old'
savanna beliefs ("heat dispersal through upright posture" :-D as if all
savanna mammals walk on their hindlimbs) he has to admit: "...preferred
mosaic environments that also contained permanent water". Further on he
mentions "perennial open water ... palaeo-shore deposits of a vast shallow
Late Plio/Early Pleist.lake ... Caspian, which may then have joined the
Black Sea... " etc. There's not 1 site where large bodies of water must
have been absent. Logically: where else could heavy slow naked fat hominids
survive??

> but cut-marked bones and tools that litter the savanna, you call "bias", I
call it evidence.

Evidence they butchered animals, yes of course. IMO drowned herbivores
crossing rivers or so. What else? Even if you believe these heavily-built
slow hominids ran after herbivores, they could never have killed them.

> Overwhelming evidence at that. There is no evidence of a predominant
littoral-lifestyle anywhere in the history of Homo, not now, not ever.

There is: the anatomical & physiological data which you neglect. How do you
explain SC fat? and nakedness? and olfactory reduction? and masticatory
reduction? and body alignment? etc.etc. No mammal running over the plains
has ever evolved these features: they have a keen sense of small, can move
very fast, have large teeth etc. If a few human populations can survive on
the plains, it's because they have technology: but where did they evolve
this? Not in the savanna: otherwise savanna chimps would have had a worse
olfaction, very thick SC fat, no fur, bipedality, technology...

> > > How do you think cheetahs got to China, by being littoral?

> > Well, cheetahs have an excellent sense of smell,

> .....and a better sense of sight. The excellent sense of smell in cats is
used primarily to find or identify each other, eg, mark territories etc.
They hunt primarily with sight, just as Homo does.

Fine, fine, everybody knows that, but the point is: why do we have a worse
olfaction than chimps?

> > run on 4 legs,

> For about 400 yds, then they have to rest and at that point Homo runs
(slowly) up and takes away their kill. So much for running fast on 4 legs
(that's why they are an endangered species and we are not).

Afr.hunting dogs run down prey. On 4 legs. They *all* do that, not only a
few males of a few populations occasionally & carrying water...

> > have a thick fur, no SC fat...

> One picture is worth a thousand words (thanks Paul).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4163282.stm

You're showing poor bipedal humans in the desert dying of TB... What is
your point, Lee?

> > Must I go on?

> I think you'd better :-)

I'm afraid you're not realising the evidence.

> > > Did cheetahs eat dead whales and algae on the way? :-)

> > Ever seen a naked fat slow cheetah? :-)

> Naked-fat-slow Homo can, and does, easily take away a cheetah kill (after
the cheetah BURNS himself out after ca. 400 yds). No need to smell anything,
the cloud of dust can easily be seen (even up-wind) that marks the exact
kill spot.

With a gun, yes.

--Marc

BTW, FYI: the new description of AAT group (Algis had objections to the
previous one - but the present one isn't any better in his eyes, but I can
always try):

AAT-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.onelist.com/community/AAT

AAT = littoral Homo
[littoral = sea/lake-shore - AAT in the narrow sense has nothing to do with
apiths, only with Homo]

* Aquatic Ape Theory [original term E.Morgan]
* Aquarboreal Apes Theory [AAT broad sense]
* Amphibious Ancestors Theory [narrow sense]

AAT (based on the behavior, anatomy, physiology & DNA of living humans
compared to other animals) says that sea/lake-side ancestors collected
coconuts, fruits, bird eggs, turtles, shell-, crayfish, algae etc. This
explains unique Homo traits (not seen in apes or apiths) better than plains-
or forest-dwelling scenarios: brain size, diving skills, breathing control,
vocality, small mouth & chewing muscles, tongue bone descent, longer airway,
projecting nose, poor sense of smell, handiness, tool use, late puberty,
long legs, aligned body, poor climbing, fatness, fur loss, high needs of
water, sodium, iodine & poly-unsaturated fatty acids etc.[note: no
bipedality: this mostly due to vertical climbing]

In the fossil & archeological record, we see this in the Plio-Pleistocene
diaspora of Homo along the Indian Ocean, African coasts, Rift valley lakes
etc. (eg, R.Dennell 2003 JHE 45:421, M.Trauth cs.2005 Science). Homo much
more than apith remains have been found (in spite of sea level fluctuations)
amid shells, corals & barnacles throughout the Pleistocene, in coasts al
over the Old World: Mojokerto, Terra Amata, Table Bay, Eritrea etc., even on
islands that could only be reached by sea: Flores 0.8 Ma
http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere.htm.

* Max Westenhöfer 1942 "Der Eigenweg des Menschen" Mannstaede
* Alister Hardy 1960 "Was Man more aquatic in the past?" NS 7:624
* Elaine Morgan 1982 "The aquatic ape" Souvenir London
* Maggie Roede cs. 1991 "The aquatic ape: fact or fiction?" Souvenir
* Marc Verhaegen cs. 2002 "Aquarboreal ancestors?" TREE 17:212
* Stephen Cunnane 2005 "Survival of the fattest" World Scientific
* http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/Symposium.html

Additional files at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AAT1


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Savanna salt in abundance (Re: meat fuel of human evolution
    ... Have a dose of evidence for your affliction: ... Department of Archaeology ... AAT is not a 'credible alternative theory'; ... The Homo maxilla AL 666, dated to 2.3 Ma, along with a stone tool assemblage ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: AAT is based on comparative data (Re: Algis ranting about AAH
    ... Another words, he has out-of-date savanna beliefs, but he is up to date ... > Evidence they butchered animals, ... > littoral-lifestyle anywhere in the history of Homo, not now, not ever. ... We don't need good smell. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Homo & molluscs
    ... tell me exactly when it was Homo lost the fur. ... Did you say savanna animals don't have fat? ... Do you have any evidence at all to support the aquatic theory? ... > scenario because ostriches are savanna birds. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Homo & molluscs
    ... >>> No swimming allowed. ... tell me exactly when it was Homo lost the fur. ... Did you say savanna animals don't have fat? ... Do you have any evidence at all to support the aquatic theory? ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Final Solution of the Aquatic Question
    ... AAT says that some time after the Homo-Pan split 7-4 Ma, our ancestors were ... is reflected in the Plio-Pleistocene dispersals of Homo along the Indian ... And the importance of actual evidence not just ... > with savanna fauna. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)