Re: skinny runners
- From: Rich Travsky <" traRvEsky"@hotmMOVEail.com>
- Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 23:13:44 -0600
Marc Verhaegen wrote:
>
> "Rich Travsky" <" traRvEsky"@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message
> news:430E9FEB.2F3430DE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> > > The savanna believers' view is solely based on so-called "outrunning" of
> other animals on the savanna. I don't see why they should outrun anything:
>
> > No one says that.
>
> I am saying that.
Does any REAL researcher say that the "savanna believers' view is solely based
on so-called "outrunning" of other animals on the savanna" ???
> > > our typical foods are more abundant on the waterside. Besides, most
> people can't "outrun" anything (women??), but if some people (KhoiSan =
> recent adaptation at the very best, and only in men) can "outrun", they
> carry water = recent tool.
>
> > Tongo chimps: http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/9403/9403.ch01.html
> Meanwhile, in the arid region of Tongo (in eastern Democratic Republic of
> Congo), chimpanzees carry around with them the water-filled roots of a
> Clematis plant, which they use and sometimes share in the style of a water
> bottle.
>
> Yes, and these naked fat chimps run after antilopes with water-filled roots
> of a Clemetis plant?
Non sequitur.
> > > This is what more sensible people think of the far-fetched outrunning
> idea (an idle attempt the re-establish the now discredited savanna idea):
> DM Bramble & DE Lieberman 2004 "Endurance Running and the Evolution of Homo"
> Nature 432:345-352. Bramble and Lieberman in a recent paper in Nature
> propose that early Homo evolved adaptations for endurance running (ER) in
> open terrestrial environments1. However, it is not clear why the authors
> have chosen ER as the specific locomotion style worth examining in terms of
> its role in human evolution. Indeed, a plausible alternative is not
> considered and one can ask why they did not take into account swimming and
> diving - locomotion styles that radically differentiate humans from all
> other primates. Darwin2 noticed how Tahitians "dive and fish like otters"
> and "have the dexterity of amphibious animals in the water". Human swimmers
> can cross the English Channel, free-dive more than seventy metres deep and
> hold their breath for more than five minutes3. There is archaeological
> evidence
>
> > This is a recently acquired ability as well.
>
> ?? If there's evidence for "long-standing" why are you talking about
> "recently acquired *as well*"?? Logics was never your best side...
You're the one saying our running abilities are recently acquired, while
ignoring our swimming abilities are likewise recent.
Or do you still cling to the idea of erectus swimming around the Pacific?
> > > for long-standing familiarity with the sea from the occupation of the
> island of Flores by 800,000 years ago4, and for the most likely use of
> swimming and diving to procure food resources, such as 125,000-years-old
> shell middens5
>
> > DOn't need to swim to get shellfish.
>
> Yes. Your point?? Darwin: Tahitians "dive and fish like otters ... have the
> dexterity of amphibious animals in the water". Is this my fault, Travsky,
> that humans can dive a lot better than chimps??
>
> > > and Acheulian tools discovered in ancient reefs in Eritrea6. Today many
>
> > More tools sites found on land away from water. You don't need a tool kit
> to open shells.
>
> Sure, sure. Your point?? relevance??
>
> Why did you snip the rest, my boy?? Because didn't have the slightest
> answer, of course. The Moken of Malaysia swim before they can walk on land,
> gather shellfish while diving with eyes wide open, they have astonishing
> visual acuity under water. B+L admit our ancestors' ER is completely
> hypothetical: ER is seen only occasionally in a few human populations, and
> only in adult males, & can impossibly have been selected for without devices
> for carrying drinking water. If early Homo individuals had been ERers,
> evol.theory would predict the acquisition of features typical of ER (horses:
> slender build, lightly-built bones etc.), or at least of cursorial primates
> (baboons are run on 4 legs & on their toes, not on the soles). But instead
> Homo evolved unexpected features not seen in typical ERers: profuse
> thermoregulatory sweating (requiring water and sodium), fur loss (exposing
> skin to solar radiation), SCfat tissues (a heavy burden for runners), larger
> breasts (making ER more difficult for half of the adult population).
.
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