Re: Gorrillas use tools, too
- From: "JAE" <jae@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 21 Oct 2005 22:16:44 -0700
Algis Kuliukas wrote:
> JAE wrote:
> > Algis Kuliukas wrote:
> > [snip]
> > > The claim is not that apes are most often seen to be bipedal when
> > > they're in water, but that when they are in particular shallow depths
> > > of water they're almost certain to be bipedal. See the difference?
> > > It's a subtle point but, I think, it's very important. On land apes are
> > > rarely bipedal. Studies have shown this to be around 2-3% of the time.
> > > In tress, the same. But in water, the only study that has been done
> > > (mine, albeit a small one on captive bonobos) showed it to be around
> > > 90%.
> >
> > Actually, it doesn't appear to me that you know what your claim is.
> > You go on and on and on about the predictability of "waist deep" water
> > but when pressed on the relevence, digress into talk about shallower
> > water. You appear to take your own 37 or 38 seconds of data and
> > generalize that it is some universal though you have been informed that
> > the predictability of wading in shallow water isn't nearly as powerful
> > as you've presented it with reports from wild populations of
> > quadrupedal wading. Did you forget this or was it simply inconvenient
> > to include it into your reasoning?
>
> Oh what a surprise. You just can't resist chipping in with some pretend
> correction or other. Well of course, it is me writing about stuff that
> is vaguely pro-AAH so what else could we expect? Anything I write about
> this just must be wrong, right?
>
> So what's the substance of the reproof *this* time?
>
> 1) I don't "appear to know what my claim is".
>
> Well I do, actually, Jason. My claim, if you remember, is that moving
> through shallow water is the factor which is most likely to compel an
> ape to move bipedally. It's simple enough. I've repeated it enough over
> the years. Which part of it don't you understand?
The part where you take 37 seconds and generalize that this is
universal ape behavior in spite of contrary evidence that it is not so
universal, in spite of evidence that apes wade quadrupedally and as
such, your conclusion that it's as predictable as you claim is based on
an incomplete data set. The part where you appear to have forgotten
contradictory evidence. That's the part I didn't understand. The parts
where you repeated "waist deep water" as you've been know to do over
and over were also the parts I didn't understand because you've been
totally inept at relating the behavior of a facultative biped in
instances of slow wading over short distances to morphological changes
favoring obligate bipedalism. That part that you've slipped over
mumbling something about flat feet in a creature who doesn't have flat
feet. That part is tough to understand too. It's tough to understand
because it's a bunch of nonsense posited by someone who appears to be
lost when it comes to the subject he pretends to be studying.
[snip propagadistic diatribe]
.
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