Re: Terra firma hominids


Mario Petrinovich wrote:
nickname:
Mario Petrinovich:
nickname:
Mario & Will, please note that often shark attacks on modern humans
relate to body boards etc. on people in water for recreational
purposes, these people are not involved in daily food foraging at
depth in a systematic method, as I propose our semi-aquatic ancient
ancestors did. The same with the vast majority of tiger bites in
Bangladesh, the people attacked tend to be town folk, ignorant of the
ways of the wild. Our ancestors on the beaches and shallow mudflats and
coral lagoons knew very well the various predators etc. DD

In Bangladesh people attacked by tigers are locals, who went into
jungle to collect wood, or something.

They went from town to jungle. Completely different situation than AAT.

I agree that rockshelters were part of coastal migration, but only
part. Mostly they lived on beaches with sand pockets covered with palm
fronds, with sharpened sticks as weapons IMO. Ever heard of a tiger
trap? Dig a hole in the sand, insert some sharp "punji" sticks
vertically, insert sacrificial lamb or goat, then cover with palm
fronds. (Yes, I know that some folks here at SAP at experts on this,
I'm keeping it simple). Tigers, lions and kitty cats dislike being
disemboweled. They have very vulnerable tummies.

You are talking about the time of sharpened sticks,

Bamboo is eaten by gorillas, orangs, pandas; stick tool use by orangs,
bonobos. Early Homo could have produced sharpened sticks by gnawing,
grinding on stone or carving with lithics. No verbal comm. required.
Stick tool used to pry mollusks, etc.
Sea otters use stone tools, Homo used stick and stone tools.

about time of
strong verbal communication. With sharpened sticks and communication people
could live everywhere. On the beaches, on the plains, everywhere. I am
talking about bipedal apes. This is interesting time for us. Later we could
live everywhere, it is not a problem. Marine otter, an animal that is very
comparable to our aquatic period, lives only on rocky coast, and AVOIDS
beaches. Beaches are dangerous places for an animal like this. Becuase on
beaches it is very hard to reach vaste deep water. Cats are leaping through
water excelently. They are faster in shallow water than anything. On beaches
it is a long way to safety of deep water.

Mario, they slept in groups and had sharp sticks to poke predators
with. Marine otters don't. Do you think sharp sticks weren't invented
until after language was invented? I think that the HPG LCA already
habitually carried a sharp tool-stick (in mouth or hands).
You think cats were common on sea beaches? I'd say far more common at
freshwater, where they can monopolize their territory, rather than at
sea beaches, where they can't.
Lions depend on stalking and surprize, hard to do on open beaches
without tall savanna grasses to hide them. A large male lion rambling
along a sea beach is scavenging, out in the open, very different from a
prowling pride hidden behind grasses and bushes, downwind of prey,
watching for weak members of a herd. But as I said, no doubt an
opportunist lion or tiger would attack and eat an unlucky beachcomber
and succeed in escaping without injury occasionally. Please Mario, if
you say water, specify salt or freshwater. Big difference in habitat
and predation/prey habits.

They are very avare of tigers. I
wouldn't neglect the predator problem, and all aspects of that problem. I
am
claiming that a bipedal animal can deal with terrestrial predatos much
better in water.

I agree with you Mario. Direct facial splashing would be one method to
dissuade big cats, since they don't like swimming in tidal salt water,
also throwing pebbles at their snout and eyes, and jabbing in the tummy
with the bamboo spear. Also your idea about diving under it is good
too, since they don't have grip at depth.

I agree that a bambo spear can be accessible in that situation. But
splashing, no. Cats don't like to run and get tired, yet they do that in
order to catch a prey. No, cats aren't stupid, they wouldn't be distracted
by splashing no more than you would be.

Again, cats don't like to be splashed in the face, with their primary
senses constantly filled with flying water. No smell, no sight, no
sound, no touch except water. They completely depend on their senses.
When those senses fail, they depend on lucky swats and bites, which
usually fail. Again, I'm not speaking one small child keeping away a
full grown tiger by a little splashing, I'm talking about a mixed group
of Homo some with spears, others with handaxes or pebbles, some
deliberately doing direct facial splashing and probably screaming in
chorus just like monkeys do. Mario, do you know if the Caspian tiger
was more aquatic than the Bengal tiger? I think it went extinct about
16ka.

Pebbles also no.

Cat eyeballs are very vulnerable to fast thrown pebbles, if one eye is
hit, the tiger goes blind, the tiger probably dies due to starvation
due to poorer hunting. Remember the blind tiger story in AAT?

Big, heavy, sharp
stones, oh yes.

No. Too hard to throw long distance accurately. Round pebbles, golf
ball size, easy to throw and aim and carry while running and place on
sandy beach in case of occasional cat.

This would hurt. Hurt much.

Not deliberately wanting to hurt the cat, unless completely necessary.
Just make it stop attacking, distracting by noise (like monkeys) and
throwing things at the cat's sensory organs. If you hurt the cat, then
it will defend itself, but if you just scare it or poke it a bit, it
will leave to find easier prey. Really bad sensory harassment is very
effective against specialised predators.

In jungle, monkeys make lots of noise, this bothers leopard's hearing
sense a lot. In savanna, noise is not so helpful because it carries
away to far away, so savanna prey doesen't make much noise. At beach,
it's between these 2 I guess.


So much that cat would try to leave soon.
OK, you know what I meant. Make it stop attacking. Confuse it.


Pebbles you have on beaches. You can pick the nearest one, as
cat is approaching fastly. Searching for pebbles and hitting them on cat
would be a waste of time. You better run fastly. That goes for water
splashing, too. But, if you are at the rocky coast, you jump into water. If
cat jumps after you, you exit water fastly. You have hands that can grip
stones.

If the stones are wet and algae covered, it is very hard to move along
them due to slipperyness, easy to break ankle, etc. But some stone
doesn't get slippery. Some stone gets sharp barnacles in the tide. This
depends on variable factors.


Cat has claws. If cat is trying to exit after you, you will hear THE
MOST unpleasent sound for us. The sound of nails scrubbing on a school
board. You will try to end that sound. By *finding* (not just grabing the
first awaible pebble in a hurry) a big, sharp stone which you will hit
directly into cat's head. You have enough time to find a suitable stone. You
have big choice of exactly what you need, big sharp stones. You are above
cat, so that your hit can be much stronger than if you hit pebbles on a
beach (or in a savanna). You can hit really big stone with both hands. And,
finely, cat is very elastic with very fats reflexes on land. We cannot
imagine how fast animals are. Humans are nowhere near them. I saw when some
guy tried to hit my dog with a stone. No way he could do that, if dog is
watching what he is doing. My dog avoided it with ease. But if cat is in
water, water dumps its movement. Cat is easy target for anybody. Even for a
kid.

I agree, but I think they didn't have so many cats around anyway. Maybe
for a small migrating group, 2 or 3 attacks per year. Maybe 1 human
victim, and maybe 1 wounded or dead cat.

It is known that a kangaroo who is attacked by dingos,
prefere to deal with them in a creek, rather than running away. In creek
kangaroo drowns dingos. We are even slower than kangaroo (so we have even
less chances to run away), and, as primates, have much more capable arms.
In my thinking about this, I don't rely on intelligence,
knowlage,
or anything else. There has to be preferable conditions in a specific
environment for us, and they are on a rocky shore. -- Mario

Why do Scottish people living on rocky shores have diverged toes
(little bit like chimp), but people living on beaches have converged
toes (like modern normal)? DD

Yes, this is a sort of mistery for me. I wouldn't say that it is
like chimp. Actually, if chimp has something like this, other chimps would
possibly say that it is a sort of like humans. We could say that it is half
way betweeen chimps and humans. I have a hard time imagining that what
chimps have is more suitable for vertical climbing. Anyway, my view is that
this vertical climbing in humans needs thorough research in just the context
I mentioned. -- Mario

OK Mario. DD

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Terra firma hominids
    ... Mostly they lived on beaches with sand pockets covered with palm ... beaches it is very hard to reach vaste deep water. ... So much that cat would try to ... You have enough time to find a suitable stone. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Ligamentum nuchae
    ... Bovids jump from stone to stone, ... Just yesterday I saw a cat in my street. ... > animal cannot jump out of water. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Ligamentum nuchae
    ... When I talked about predators, I talked about terretrial predators, ... I talked about big cats, where, if you go to deep water, they lose anchor ... On the second video it is clear that cat has problems in changing ... You can hit a stone on it, ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • ASH: ASH #67 - "Monstrous" (Manifest Destiny Part 3)
    ... The water churned as a mile-long serpent thrashed her way across the ... to wrench my spirit apart, ... She lashed out at a small atoll, stone and coral alike shattering into ... the Leviathan thrashed in anguish, ...
    (rec.arts.comics.creative)
  • Chez Watt Ballot, August 3, 2011
    ... if people make nominations, and there are far more nominations this ... rocks absorbed the oxygen if you were being scientific that would be a ... I'm not stone. ... Water is unsmashable. ...
    (talk.origins)