Re: Explain 'Little Lucy's deposition?


"Lee Olsen" <paleocity@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Paul Crowley wrote:
<claudiusdenk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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but I doubt it.
To bury something, you have to dig through soil. This destroys
depressions. The teeth could not have ended up in a depression that
was destroyed by the digging process OR the hominids themselves must
have deliberately excavated the depression in order to place the
teeth into it when they reached the bottom of the grave pit. The
skull
was not found with the teeth. You can not blame ground movement,
erosion, earthquakes, or anything else because the original
ground-surface features remain intact.

Uh, I can't make any sense of this. To suggest there aren't alternate
explanations for the teeth location, Paul, is ridiculous. It doesn't
dictate the conclusion of burial.

There are two broad hypotheses. The first is
rarely stated; it is an assumption -- inherited
from Biblical Studies (the unacknowledged
foundation of most of PA).
(a) Hominids began to bury their dead
shortly before the arrival of modern
civilisation;
(b) Burial (or other hygienic disposal) of
the dead has always been a hominid
behaviour. It is an essential part of
the niche.

Which theory does the data support?

Neither, because both of your examples are based on a false premise.


It is generally agreed that KNM-WT15000 died
from a tooth infection. THAT data is in conflict
with the theory that he then drowned in a lake.


Correction. It is not generally agreed, as Crowley erroneously
imagines, that 15000 died from a periodontal lesion. It is only
mentioned in the report that he "could have" died from such a
cause.
There is no evidence what-so-ever that 15000 was even near the water
when he died, let alone drowned in it.

The remains are not overly likely to have moved very far though I suppose a
flood might. Somehow the body ended up in shallow water. Exact cause of
death is unknown but the dental problem was a monster infection that would
have saped the beings ability, strength, and ruined his health. It certainly
played a role in his death.




However, there is nothing in the site reports --
as such -- that indicate deliberate burial. The
remains were scattered over a significant area,
and AFAIR most of his teeth were found in a
depression created by a hippo footprint.
I suggest that he was probably deliberately
buried in sand in a water-course, and later that
ground became covered by water and then a
hippo dislodged his remains.

So Crowley, the same person that claimed that chimps do not have the
capacity to dig, now is contradicting the primary researchers
conclusion, without ever reading the report?



The mere survival of a hominid corpse does,
I suggest, indicate deliberate burial. And when
we have large numbers (far in excess of those
for any other hominoid) the evidence is
conclusive. The survival of the corpse of any
animal requires rapid burial. Flash floods and
the like are common explanations. But such
corpses should not exhibit other causes of
death (such as tooth abscesses). The incidence
of such deaths seen in hominid fossils is far too
high to be explained by mere coincidence.

Repeating your delusional claptrap does not make your suggestion true,
it only makes you look like a loon. Do you really think any sane person
is going to believe your imagination over the excavators hard evidence
to the contrary?




Try a Google search, there are some pretty good summaries for the
African skeletal material. Then report back.

Another question dodged. You should
know that such fossils are extremely (and
strangely) rare. PA has NO explanation
for this scarcity -- of a species that is known
(from modern populations, and from DNA)
to have been rapidly expanding at this time.

What's this about?

Early Hss is KNOWN to have expanded all over
the Old World between ~200 kya and ~25 kya.
Yet there are almost no fossils. Why?


Same reason there are so few H.e fossils also, they did not bury their
dead.



Some brave PA people used to ask themselves
that question -- once upon a time, long long ago,
when questions within PA were still permitted.
Of course, fundamentally, it is silly -- in that it
relies on the (unstated) assumption that Hss
was a new taxon appearing from almost nowhere.
In fact, Hss merely replaced other hominids in the
same habitat, and the question should focus on
the _absence_ of hominid fossils generally over
the last half-million or million years.


Message-ID: <1160837514.938748.252510@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Paul Crowley: "Chimps do NOT have the capacity to dig."

http://chimpansee.homestead.com/links.html
"Chimps dig clean water: Chimpanzees dig holes in the sand near pools
of stagnant water in riverbeds, allowing relatively clean water to well
up from the water table"




Paul.



.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Explain Little Lucys deposition?
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  • Re: Explain Little Lucys deposition?
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