Re: lions & savannah


claudiusdenk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Will in New Haven wrote:
claudiusdenk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
claudiusdenk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Lee Olsen wrote:
Jim McGinn wrote:


I'm afraid it's yourself that is confused. Both tigers and lions
evolved from Sabertoothed cats.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-08/cp-dte080305.php
"The analysis shows that the sabertooth cats were a sister group to the
modern cats--that is, they diverged early on from the ancestors of
modern cats and are not closely related to any living felid species."

They don't really know this, and it's irrelevant anyways. We're not
concerned with their lineage. We're concerned with their behavior.

There are no good reasons to assume that their behavior and abilties is
similar to modern day lions.

I meant to say:

There are no good reasons to assume that their behavior and abilties is
NOT similar to modern day lions.

Yes there are. Their leg structure and build indicate that at least the
larger saber-tooth cats were not capable of as much speed as lions,

so instead of a top speed of 40 MPH they have a top speed of 35. To
Apith, that couldn't even run 15 mph it hardly matters

If they are ambush predators who specialize in megafauna, it is
unlikely that they are going to be a major problem for early hominids.
Early hominids would have ENOUGH problems, so it isn't very important
but the saber-tooth cats were neither the ancestors of modern lions and
tigers nor capable of running at anything LIKE thirty-five MPH. The
structure of their legs does not allow it.


who
are not great distance runners but do sprint very well. Sabertooth cats
were more closely-coupled than modern Jaguars, much moreso than lions.

They were bigger (and especially more muscular) than lions.

Lions are big enough to kill men, let alone early hominids. Being
bigger would not make the sabertooth cats more of a danger to hominids.
Some species of sabertooth cats were smaller than lions, of course, but
there were species that were bigger. There were also lions that were
bigger than modern lions. The related scimitar-toothed cats were
intermediate in build, less robust than smilodon but moreso than the
panthera. Which is important because there were no sabertooth cats in
Africa but there were scimitar-toothed cats. However, even
scimitar-toothed cats were not well-designed for high-speed pursuit.

IF early hominids had coexisted with true sabertooth cats in the
Americas they would have encountered the Giant Short-Faced Bear and
that would have made the cats look wimpy.


Jaguars are solitary ambush predators who do well in dense habitat.

This would seem to indicate a more limited choice of prey for the
sabertooths, possibly restricted to the megafauna, or perhaps a
different choice of hunting strategies. The saber teeth themselves
indicate some major differences, upon which we can only speculate. It
is possible that they relied on the teeth to penetrate throat tissue
for the kill, while the lion kill is often by strangulation.

There is no absolute proof but there are good reasons to assume that
they were not simiilar to modern lions, except for obvious vague
similarity.

Hardly matters. Whatever the case it is clear that A'pith couldn't
have regularly travelled through treeless habitat as the current
paradigm maintains. They were, essentially, trapped at their treed
localities.

There were almost always tree-lined streams, clumps of trees near
underground water sources, brushy hills and other areas where early
hominids, like modern baboons, could retreat. Wouldn't save all of them
but it didn't have to.

There was also plenty of other game. While lions would certainly have
hunted and killed early hominids, they would not have sought to wipe
them out simply to prove your point.


Will in New Haven

--

"Almost cut my hair It happened just the other day
It's gettin kinda long I coulda said it was in my way
But I didn't and I wonder why I feel like letting my freak flag fly
Cause I feel like I owe it to someone." "Almost Cut my Hair" by
Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: lions & savannah
    ... "The analysis shows that the sabertooth cats were a sister group to the ... modern cats and are not closely related to any living felid species." ... NOT similar to modern day lions. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: lions & savannah
    ... evolved from Sabertoothed cats. ... "The analysis shows that the sabertooth cats were a sister group to the ... modern cats and are not closely related to any living felid species." ... NOT similar to modern day lions. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: lions & savannah
    ... "The analysis shows that the sabertooth cats were a sister group to the ... modern cats and are not closely related to any living felid species." ... There are no good reasons to assume that their behavior and abilties is ... NOT similar to modern day lions. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Neandertals, Hyenas Fought for Caves, Food, Study Says
    ... Evolutionarily, they are a little closer to cats, despite their ... In "modern" settings, they've been ... known to challenge lions for kills. ... hyenas away from whatever they have managed to bring down. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: A More Reasonable Interpretation of the Evidence
    ... has no bearing on a creature who can escape in trees. ... Well, chasing isn't lions preferred method, either. ... saber-toothed cats. ... Obviously there were large feline predators in late miocene ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)