Re: Q for Lee O, desert running


Chapstick wrote:
"Lee Olsen" <paleocity@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1169137014.222756.251740@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Chapstick wrote:
"Lee Olsen" <paleocity@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1169099023.910873.286760@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Chapstick wrote:
"Easy, because we can out run a horse in the desert. Proof is in the
pudding, no matter what your flawed-comparative data tells
you." --Lee,
Sun,
Sep-11-05, 06:38
http://forum.lowcarber.org/archive/index.php/t-263723.html

Hello Lee et. al.,

Is this true? We can outrun a horse on the desert? Can either animal
(human or horse) run for any length on the desert?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/animals/newsid_1804000/1804830.stm

Even better I think...

mclark found this one
http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/
December 2006-January 2007
Click on 'samplings'
"And the hunters' tracking skills must be exquisite; finding and
following the quarry every time it bolts out of sight or mingles with a
herd is no easy task-teamwork helps. But done right, Liebenberg says,
persistence hunting is so effective that it may have helped select for
the excellent thermoregulatory system, bipedal posture, and long
strides that we all possess."



The entire piece from mclark's link follows... thank you... meanwhile, if
it
(persistence hunting) is better than the bow and arrow, how come we
invented
(evolved) the bow and arrow? <grin> Of course, we DID develop that
tool,

Maybe it was a couch potato who needed to invent the bow and arrow in
the first place :-)

Getting back to this point made in the article: "But done right,
Liebenberg says, persistence hunting is so effective that it may have
helped select for the excellent thermoregulatory system, bipedal
posture, and long strides that we all possess."

http://tinyurl.com/7u5wo
" In fact, he (Homo e) walked and ran with better mechanics than we
do today. The mechanics of his femur, femur head, pelvis, and lower
back are superior to those of today. We have had to sacrifice some of
that efficiency of walking and running to give birth to children with
larger brains."

As more and more innovations came along, the less physical we needed
to be, a feedback loop. Even though we have teeth, we invented the
pressure cooker anyway. One anthropologist quipped that if the rate of
tooth reduction continues at the present rate, in another 50,000 years
humans probably won't have teeth at all.

I agree with the concept that various pressures "caused" our various
adaptions as time went along. (and, although it is off topic for this
thread, I continue to speculate about sexual selection... if it exists and
the rapidity with which it can bring about changes.... and how that alone
might explain some of the hss features.)
So, at one time, running down prey would have been selected for, and at
another, larger female pelvises, and eventually, a more-premature birth
(more helpless infant), etc.
I do wonder how much "we" (meaning the people that post here on sap, and
the rest of humanity that are concerned about questions of evolution) can
depend on odd ball results from something as spectacular as a man beating a
horse on a foot race thru the desert. (and, btw, i read carefully thru the
part about the human taking advantage of the horse's rule-imposed water
breaks) (it is also assumed that neither horse nor man could cross the
desert without sufficient water....implying that if this concept applies to
earliest homo, then he/she would have to have invented a water carrying
technique).

I don't really think the horse in the desert example was all that
great either, but that IS the one you asked specifically about. I gave
the other example because it said 80% successful. The article said
something else that I think very important --teamwork helps. Hyenas,
lions, chimps, baboons, and others all will hunt cooperatively at
times, it pays or they wouldn't do it. It would pay even more for early
Homo because it would eliminate the need for any one individual to run
the full 6 1/2 hours in the heat without water. It has been my
experience that in dry country animals hanging around a particular
water hole will simply run in the general direction of the next
waterhole anyway, when spooked, so no need for a human to invent a
water carrying technique for a short chase (when hunting in teams).
The books by the Leakeys and John Pfeiffer give numerous accounts of
the many ways humans can catch animals much faster than ourselves that
can be learned by just careful observation (even running down some
species of birds). How much of this Homo e might have figured out is
speculation, but the cut marks on the bones prove they were getting to
them somehow.


If we accept this result... outrunning a horse on the desert, then we
might have to allow Marc to use the pearl divers, with their ability to dive
to some 125 meters (?) as the norm for humans. Or, that mankind may have
evolved in outer space, since we have been to the moon. (and, perhaps in
our future, some man or woman will survive a period of time with a punctured
spacesuit in zero-g and zero-oxygen.) <grin> We're all aliens! bring on
the Nasca Lines... <grin>

The horse was only one of many examples that could be given. The
difference between Marc's example and the running example is that the
tools that processed the bones are found nearly everywhere in Africa,
yet there is not one hominid processed "pearl" to be found anywhere.
The first tools to show up are associated with antelope bones, tortoise
shells, and ostrich shells (all suggest areas of C4 plant growth, which
is exactly what is found in the isotope composition of early Homo
teeth). That is the null hypothesis (for all that transpired before)
until proven otherwise. No aliens need apply :-)

To summarize what I am trying to think... I am interested in a sort of
coherent, complex & dynamic, timeline of human development. I think we all
want that. How did we become this thinking being? and not just another
chimp? Does the chimp "think?" and etc.
--chap

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Q for Lee O, desert running
    ... We can outrun a horse on the desert? ... he (Homo e) walked and ran with better mechanics than we ... part about the human taking advantage of the horse's rule-imposed water ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: savanna nonsense (Re: A critique of the BBC aquatic ape programme and the transcript.
    ... > 1) The butchered gazelles never came near to the water. ... In order to make all the radical changes seen in Homo, ... This argument a fortiori contradicts the savanna theory. ... >> I know, Homo can out run a horse in the desert, what more does one need ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: fur loss & SC fat (Re: Homo & molluscs
    ... >> A little extra fat is what gives Homo the ability to out run a horse in ... > the desert. ... early Homo was an efficient runner, the first human species to be so ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: what is etymology? (linguistics and biology)
    ... husband of Sarasvati, goddess of the Milky Way, ... is close to Varuna's title pati- danunas 'lord of the water' ... Now for the sun horse, ... CA LAB --- sky cold, winter sun horse, ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: what is etymology? (linguistics and biology)
    ... What is the meaning of water? ... earth and sky, toward the sky that begins beyond the river ... Follow a river and sooner or later you come to the river ... A Magdalenian explanation of Latin equus 'horse' defied ...
    (sci.lang)
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