Re: human ancestors never passed through a knuckle-walking phase

"nickname" <alas_my_loves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1186267544.711904.252810@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The gorilla and chimp niches are (or were)
HUGE. An animal occupying them has
no good reason to change, and the size
of the population would have rendered
any substantial change very difficult.

I see that a new species of coelacanth has
been found off Indonesia -- quite separate
from its cousin off South Africa. That
taxon found its niche around 400 million
years ago, and has found no need to
change since.

The ecotype is stable there

Since no one has the remotest idea what it
is like, that's a pure guess.

so the niche may endure, a taxon adapted
to that niche may endure as well. Inland habitat is far more variable,
due to climate (and other) changes.

It might have varied in size, but never
disappeared. In fact, it was always
probably thousands of square miles.
If it had fallend below that, many species
of trees and plants would have gone
extinct.

(Fossil and extant) Gibbons/siamangs and orangs lack traces of these
locking wrists?

Yes.

That some hominids knucklewalked is uncertain but quite possible.

Surely a definition of 'hominid' involves
the term 'biped'. (Although, confusion has
entered terminology -- some people here
use 'hominin'. But I hope you know what
I mean.)

I'm saying our ancestors did not knucklewalk.

Why are you saying this? Don't you
feel that you need a reason?

When they needed more
support than two legs, they a) used a walking stick like the Ndoki
gorilla did to cross water of unknown depth b) Walked palms and soles
down (steep terrain, cliffs) c) kneecrawled (mucky or sandy
substrate)

Why would anyone want to believe in
such a crazy theory? How did such
animals RUN?

What's wrong with having chimps as
ancestors?

Below is my brief version....

Among hominoids, only humans and gibbons are obligate bipeds on the
ground, both tail-less & airsac-less.

Gibbons are about as much 'obligate bipeds'
as we are 'obligate quadrupeds' when we are
crawling under tables. I.e. such behaviour
is totally irrelevant to the life-style and the
occupation of a niche.

Chimps and gorillas have recently became more habitually terrestrial
(more open forest)

Pure nonsense. Why should 'more open
forest' exist where it did not before?

and so adapted a makeshift kwalk quadrupedal gait,

There is nothing makeshift about knuckle-
walking. It is an excellent system for getting
(quadrupedal) speed on the ground while
maintaining powerful and flexible hands for
grasping (i.e. climbing trees) and for
manipulation.

after previously been bipedal like gibbons.

Ridiculous. Firstly, gibbons are not 'bipedal'
in any real sense. They do not live on the
ground and when finding themselves there,
get off it as fast as they can.

Secondly, you have not begun to understand
the adaptations necessary for true bipedalism.

How did these 'bipedal chimps' sleep in trees?
How did they get around trees? How did the
females carry infants?

The LCA H-oid AFAICT had a combination of vertical climbing, wading
and semi-vertical floating (selected for enlarged laryngeal air sacs
and reduction of tail) and very primitive tree nesting began at
coastal or islanded population, during a "global" dry period.

Why propose such nonsense? What
evidence do you have that this is -- in
any way at all -- a viable life-style?

Were the ancestors of this animal gibbon-
like?

No
knucklewalking at that time. From there

What made this population so successful
that it was able to have so many kinds of
descendants? And if it was THAT successful
how come there is nothing like it around today
(nor within historical times) ?

the various apes and apiths
were derived as the geoclimate got wetter inland, the population
expanded (highland forest gibbons, siamangs became more spiderlike
brachiators canopy specialists); spreading along coasts and inland
along coastal rivers-swamps-marshes (orangs, then gorillas).

You have no concept of ends and means.
You seem to think that you can invent any
kind of fantasy-world and fantasy-evolution
you wish.


Paul.




.

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