Re: New Savanna Man from China 2 mya




Op 19-11-2007 13:00, in artikel 3nu2k3hii62vk5gjenk6tl4fu9a679bqji@xxxxxxx,
Gerrit Hanenburg <G.Hanenburg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> schreef:

Marc Verhaegen <m_verhaegen@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

My boy, does the evidence say "swamp swamp swamp" or "savanna savanna
savanna"?
Taxa Lifestyle and habitat
Pila ovata Air-breathing, shallow-water swamp snail
Claria sp. Shallow-water catfish
Clarotes sp. Catfish
Hydrocynus sp. Shallow- to deep-water fish predator
Synodontis sp. Shallow-water spiny catfish
Varanus niloticus Scavenging and often aquatic lizard
Trionyx sp. Soft-shelled freshwater turtle
Pelomedusidae spp. Smooth-shelled water tortoise
Metridiochoerus sp. Grazing pig
Hippopotamus aethiopicus Aquatic herbivore
Hippopotamus gorgops Aquatic herbivore
Bovidae spp. (duiker- to buffalo-sized) Grazing and browsing herbivores
Lepus capensis Grass and herb feeder

And back to square one, the narrow focus on depositional environment.
And that still requires an explanation of the presence of an open
savanna taxon like Lepus capensis.
However, looking beyond the depositional environment through the taxon
list of the Natoo Member one notices a variety of ecological guilds,
indicating a rather varied environment.

Hippo, reeds, 3 spp of catfish, swamp snails etc. = savanna for savanna
believers. Those fools call everything savanna.

You are still narrowly focussed on the depositional location only.

No, no: we know that humans have no fur & have a lot of SC fat & aligned
body posture etc.etc., features only seen in mammals that spend a lot of
time in water. W+L's list shows that not everything in so-called savanna
have to be savanna runners:
Pila ovata Air-breathing, shallow-water swamp snail
Claria sp. Shallow-water catfish
Clarotes sp. Catfish
Hydrocynus sp. Shallow- to deep-water fish predator
Synodontis sp. Shallow-water spiny catfish
Varanus niloticus Scavenging and often aquatic lizard
Trionyx sp. Soft-shelled freshwater turtle
Pelomedusidae spp. Smooth-shelled water tortoise
Homo erectus Waterside hominid (this study)
Metridiochoerus sp. Grazing pig
Hippopotamus aethiopicus Aquatic herbivore
Hippopotamus gorgops Aquatic herbivore
Bovidae spp. (duiker- to buffalo-sized) Grazing and browsing herbivores
Lepus capensis Grass and herb feeder
This list is to be expected in AAT.

Nobody disputes that that was a very wet location at the time.
But we also want to know what existed beyond that location, its wider
ecological context. And that was why I posted the faunal list of the
entire Natoo Member of which NK3 is a part. So, let's have a look at
it again:
Hystrix sp. Tragelaphus strepsiceros
Theropithecus oswaldi Pelorovis turkanensis
Cercocebus/Colobus sp. Pelorovis sp. nov.
Homo erectus Hippotragus gigas
Canis cf. C. mesomelas Kobus sigmoidalis
Carnivora indet. Kobus kob
Hipparion cf. H. ethiopicum Menelikia lyrocera
Equus cf. E. grevyi Reduncini (medium)
Equus cf. E. burchelli Reduncini (small)
Equidae gen indet. Megalotragus sp.
Rhinocerotidae gen. indet. Connochaetes sp.
Kolpochoerus limnetes Damaliscus sp.
Metridiochoerus compactus Alcelaphini (medium)
Met. hopwoodi (?) Alcelaphini (small)
Hexaprotodon karumensis Aepyceros melampus
Hippopotamus gorgops Gazella janenschi
H. aethiopicum Gazella praethompsoni
Sivatherium maurusium Gazella sp.
Giraffa sp. Caprini gen. indet.
Swamp only?

Nobody says that. Point is He was found amid catfish, reeds, swamp
snails... Hares & giraffes have fur & +-no SC fat.

An appeal to the molecular level does not help your case as there is
quite some distance between genetics and the way natural selection
acts on populations through the environment.

You don't understand a word of biology & selection.
Nat.selection works on combinations of genes.
Not on populations, my boy.
Never heard of Dawkins?

I'm quite familiar with the gene centered perspective. But natural
selection still changes gene frequencies by acting on the individual
vehicles that carry them. There are no naked genes.

The point is that genes inherit apart: never heard of recombination?

Selection so incredibly effective because it works simulateously in all
members of the species. All features are inherited apart.

Tell me, where's the shoreline that connects Koobi Fora to Dmanisi?

Well?

No me who asked that (>>>?).
Inform. This question has been aswered a few times.
Again:
- Stingrays in Turkana 1.8 Ma = marine connection.

But then you're still only at the African coast of the Indian ocean.

??
Not sure what you mean.
Afr.He 1.8 Ma came from the Ind.Ocean IMO.

- Dmanisi: Black+Caspian Seas were conected c.1.8 Ma (never heard of plate
tectonics?). Nothing excludes marine connection then. If not, no doubt
along river.

Plate tectonics of the last 2 million years has barely had an effect
on the position of land masses or major water ways. There is no amount
of plate tectonics in that period that would have created a continuous
aquatic connection between the two sites. Land crossing would have
been unavoidable. Gerrit

IYO.
Not IMO.
1mm/yr (Italy since Romans) = 2km/2Ma.
Nothing excludes a marine connection at Dmanisi at the time.


.

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