Re: Both SAT and AAT have failed
- From: Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:35:08 -0700 (PDT)
On Aug 17, 10:15 am, nickname <alas_my_lo...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Aug 17, 9:11 am, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Aug 17, 8:32 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
netloon:
Why don't you tell us how
water was involved with the selection of language.
don't you know??
what do you kow, my boy?
ever heard of Elaine Morgan?
Yes. It's hard for me to express how completely unimpressed I've been
with everything she's stated.
Possible Preadaptations to Speech - a Preliminary Comparative Approach
M Verhaegen & S Munro 2004 Hum.Evol.19:5370
Human language is a unique phenomenon
Uh huh.
and its evolutionary origins are
uncertain. In this paper we attempt to explore some of the preadaptations
that might have contributed to the origin of human speech.
The comparative approach we use is based on the assumption that all features
of a species are functional, and that all features can be compared with
those of other animals and correlated with certain lifestyles. Using this
method we attempt to reconstruct the different evolutionary pathways of
humans & chimpanzees after they split from a common ancestor ...
This paper presents comparative data suggesting the various human speech
skills may have had their origins at different times and may originally have
had different functions. Possible preadaptations to speech include, eg,
- musical skills present in a variety of primate species (sound production);
- airway closure and breath-hold diving for collecting seafood (voluntary
breath control);
- suction feeding adaptations for the consumption of fruit juice or certain
seafoods (fine control of oropharyngeal movements).
The different evolutionary pathways of chimpanzees & humans might explain
why chimpanzees lack language skills and why human language is a relatively
recent phenomenon.
Vague nonsense.
____
In short: human speech is composed of different elements:
- musicality (gibbons, bonobos...),
- voluntary breathing (uniquely human),
- mouth closure at different places = labial, dental, palatal, velar etc.
consonants (only humans),
- symbolic meanings (apes & other mammals).
More in detail:
- Darwin already described the musical abilities of gibbons (song, dialog,
duet, rhythm, tone... = "vowels" produced by glottis) cf. hoots of chimps
etc.: probably predates the ape LCA c 18 Ma. Possibly related to monogamy
(birds, gibbons, indris, tarsiers...).
- Elaine Morgan described how voluntary breath-hold for diving & pre-dive
hyper-ventilation were preadaptations to voluntary breathing control for
speech.
- The different airway closing mechanisms in humans (probably after the
Homo/Pan split c 5 Ma: ext.nose, nasal cycle, velum, lips, tongue,
glottis...) are typical of (parttime) diving mammals. Consonants &
breathing control.
- Roger Crinion noticed the resemblances in human oral anatomy with
different spp of suction-feeders (for fruit juice, slippery foods, seafoods
etc.): parabolic closed tooth row (incl.incisiform canines), smooth palate
(few ridges only dentally), vaulted palate & globular tongue, descended
tonge & hyoid etc. = voluntary production of consonants (esp.clicks etc.).
- Subsequent brain enlargements since H.erectus (facilitated by abundant
brain-specific fatty acids: DHA etc.from seafood) suggest further
integrations of these voluntary sound productions with other brain centers
during the Pleistocene. Integrations of symbolic sounds. Progressively
more complex grammar, see work of Martin Nowak: at first 1 sound = 1 word =
1 meaning; then combinations of phonemes=sounds into morphemes=words; then
combinations of words into sentences (word order, grammar etc.).
Comparative vagueness.
I can't help but notice that you make not the slightest attempt to
flesh out any of this into a scenario from which you might precipitate-
out some testable details.
Biological evolution is based on evolutionary theory the central
concept of which is natural selection. If you are not willing, even
eager, to discuss the how and why of any such proposed selective
scenario then you aren't doing science. You are doing little more
than playing word games.
According to your logic (or lack of logic), dolphins are communal
species,
Quote me directly you straw-baiting nitwit. I never stated dolphins
were particular communal. I'd say their about as communal as dogs/
wolves.
and their aquatic evolutionary adaptation is merely
incidental and irrelevant,
I never stated any such thing.
since all life depends on water anyway. Not
much explanatory power there, almost as weak as savanna/creationist
mythology. Not disagreeing with your remarks on the importance of the
monsoonal effects though, but you seem to lack a causative agent for
the monsoonal shift.
Uplift of Himalayas and shift in Hadley cells as a result of climate
change. Look it up.
Why did the monsoons start? I think it was due to
the Panama closure changing global ocean currents, and also both the
Bering Strait and Antarctic-South American damming.
DDeden
I think your right that these events may have played a role.
.
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- Both SAT and AAT have failed
- From: Claudius Denk
- Re: Both SAT and AAT have failed
- From: nickname
- Re: Both SAT and AAT have failed
- From: Claudius Denk
- Re: Both SAT and AAT have failed
- From: Marc Verhaegen
- Re: Both SAT and AAT have failed
- From: Claudius Denk
- Re: Both SAT and AAT have failed
- From: nickname
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