Re: Re correction: Re: Small brained Hobbits were not smart as big brained Homo with evidence so far

Lee Olsen:
Mario Petrinovic:
Lee Olsen:
Mario Petrinovic:

> The above case clearly shows that small brained people did the job
> the same way big brained people would. I.e. there is no difference in
> intelligence based on brain size.

That is not true. I already cited more complex ideas were in place
elsewhere
even earlier associated with larger brains, you did not understand
this.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I don't understand this. You claim that those complex ideas are
becuase of bigger brain. I claim that this is not true, since a bigger
brained people performed just like a smaller brained persons in the same
conditions.

Sure, sometimes a slightly smaller brain can do better, but the
smallest brained
Homo is still larger than a chimp or hobbit. No chimp or hobbit (so
far) has been able to get good grades at Harvard.
---------------------------------------------------------------

So weren't Neandertals.
------------------------------------------------------------

I claim that your complex ideas are because of different
conditions, not because of big brain.

On what basis?
--------------------------------------------------------------

It all started with "The Upper Paleolithic Revolution". It wasn't a
sudden increase in brain capacity (actually, our brain capacity DECREASED
just when the biggest advancement in technology was made). It was a cultural
revolution, based on social organization. This cultural/social revolution
allowed the spreading of humans all over the Earth, extinction of
Neandertals and Hobbits.
--------------------------------------------------------------

I don't understand on what exactly you
are basing your idea that this is because of bigger brain, when big brain,
in the same conditions (so, in comparable conditions) performs the same.

Yes, but all the big and small brained Homo can make a Clovis point,
no 400 cc
chimp can do this. There is no evidence a 700 cc brained Homo e could
make
one either, or get good grades at Harvard. If they could have, why
didn't they? They had a million years to try and didn't.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

For millions of years stone tool technology wasn't changed. During
that time, brain capacity changed a lot.
Regarding Clovis, as I understood, Clovis reverted back to an OLDER
technology. Why? Because they met different social organization in the New
World. Probably because there was less people per square mile in the New
World, not because they suddenly became stupid, although they were smart
enough to reach America.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Just because you have a prejustice of capabilities of bigger brain?

Only when you are talking brains from 1000 cc to 1600 cc and comparing
them
to brains one third or half that size. Do you think a chipmunk could
beat a chimp in a IQ test?
----------------------------------------------------------------

Mouses do excellently in labyrints. Dogs excellently remember the
path they are traveling.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Chimps simply cannot
grasp how to do
this, no matter how much candy they are given. You cannot assume
chimps or the
hobbits could produce a modern arrowhead or even a handaxe until you
can test for it somehow and prove that they could.
----------------------------------------------------------------

No. If you don't learn how to speak at a certain age, no matter how
intelligent you are, you will never learn to speak properly.
Similarly, it
is understandable that a bird can grasp much easier how to fly, than a
human. When I saw what chimps are performing with their hands, I was
amazed.

Good, then find a chimp that can make a Clovis point and I will be
amazed too.

They were able to swing around a tree trunk, swing aroud a branch, swing
around anything, so fast that I couldn't even figure out that fast what
are they doing.

So can a gibbon, but they can't make a Clovis point either.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Jesus, you cannot swing around a tree like they can. Not in your
dreams. And you have much worse memory than chimps (just like it was shown
on those tests), although you train your memory whole your life. So, no
matter how much you train your memory, you will still not beat a chimp in
that, no way. But also, no matter how many sweets chimp gets, he will never
deal with stones the way you do.
Have you considered to try to make a stone flake with your legs.
I'll be very interested to see that. Their hands can grasp branches
excellently, our hands can grasp stones excellently. If a grip isn't just
excellent (like ours is), you suddanly have much less ability. Try to make a
flake with your thumb put aside. It would be much harder. But hey, you still
has other four fingers, and all of them are addapted just to grip stones.
Neither of chimp fingers is adapted to that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

OTOH, an animal that is living amongst rocks for few million
years (at least), and do things with stones one way or the other (a lot of
things can be done with stones without producing stone tools, like probing
if predator waits behind some big boulder, you hit a rock behind boulder,
if
it falls on soft, than watch out, it is probably a predator waiting
there),
he is much better to understand rocks than some animal which sees rocks
only
very rarely. But chimps can understand how to move amongst tree branches
very easily, I assure you.

Then why aren't chimps making and using flakes? Toth has tried for >10
years to train
a chimp to make stone tools. The chimp just doesn't get it. The
capacity is just not
there. Actually a chimp's language level is about the same as their
language level
(rudimentary compared to Homo s). This might be a coincidence and it
might not.
--------------------------------------------------------------

A language is a big adventage, there is no doubt about that.
-- Mario Petrinovic
---------------------------------------------------------------

All that has been demonstrated so far is a hobbit with a 400 cc brain
can do better than
a chimp with a 400 cc brain. We know chimps can't make a blade core or
a Clovis point.
We don't know what a hobbit could make other than simple flakes.

.

Relevant Pages