Re: Elaine Morgan OBE

On Jul 9, 10:43 am, Algis Kuliukas <al...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jul 7, 8:14 pm, rmacfarl <rmacf...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

He spent 700 hours watch chimps and found them to be bipedally very
rarely (around 2-3% of the time) but when they WERE bipedal, he found
that it was usually in the context of postural feeding - hence Hunt's
postural feeding hypothesis. It's about and as evidence-based a model
of bipedal origins as you can get. I have never heard anyone criticise
it on the grounds that there's "an inconsistency" in using postural
feeding as evidence for the evolution of obligate bipedalism.

Hmm [scratches chin...] Why would standing on 2 legs be inconsistent
with bipedalism?

So, it's fine and dandy to report very rare instances of bipedalism
and infer that they might have been a factor in human evolution, but
not me. Why's that then? The 'a' factor, right?


Don't go playing that overwrought conspiracy card again Algis. I don't
& never did have a problem you reporting what you saw. I did & do have
a problem with how you interpret the results & draw your conclusions.
I personally don't see either Hunt drawing as fixed conclusions from
his data as you do from yours. Nor do I see the PA establishment
deciding that his results provide 100% proof of 1 hypothesis of
bipedal origins over any other, as you do.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bipedalism
bi⋅ped⋅al⋅ism
  /baɪˈpɛdlˌɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [bahy-ped-l-iz-uhm] Show
IPA
Use bipedalism in a Sentence
–noun
the condition of being two-footed or of using two feet for standing
and walking.

Hmm... On that definition, Hunt's definition, errh, stands.

Very clever but the question we are all trying to resolve (at least
some of us are anyway) is why did humans start walking? not why do
some primates wobble in three branches, hand-assisisted somerimes
whilst gathering food. To some of us, that's kind of bleeding obvious.
Iknow that for others they'd rather keep everyone in the dark, scratch
their chins and say "we don't know... it's a big mystery" than even
consider the heretical proposition that human ancestors moved through
the water sometimes... incredible.


For some of us, the mystery is the attraction. Overly simplistic
"bleeding obvious" explanations that aren't, aren't.

Yes, it's frustrating that the researcher looking at bipedal origins
chose to study chimps at Gombe (where there was no water to wade
through) whilst the researcher studying general behaviour of bonobos
saw all the bipedalism. Murphy's law strikes again.

I think you (again) miss my point, which was that "bipedal wading in
24.14% of encounters" is not the same as wading bipedally 24.14% of
the time. As I read the Myers Thompson quote you posted, it may have
been that in a quarter of the encounters where bonobos were wading,
some bipedalism was observed, but not necessarily for the whole of
those encounters. They might have only been bipedal for (say) 10% of
the time during those 24.14% of encounters.

I know you read it in the worst possible way... but even in that way,
it's still a world record for bipedal observations in the wild... and
water is the key additional factor ... again, obviously.


I'm not reading it in the worst possible way, you tit, I'm just
reading it. Is my interpretation wrong? You've got the paper - you
tell me.

Ross Macfarlane

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Bipedal Orrorin?
    ... >> of those instances were in the context of postural feeding. ... Not the land vs. water difference, ... I repeat that evidence, yes, as evidence for the wading hypothesis, as ... showed that bipedalism, although rare, was most highly correlated with ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Elaine Morgan OBE
    ... that it was usually in the context of postural feeding - hence Hunt's ... feeding as evidence for the evolution of obligate bipedalism. ... Flooded forest was the ancestral home? ... No contest. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Bipedal Orrorin?
    ... "Wading gets apes moving bipedally for minutes at a time. ... :>>> bipedal on land more than 3 times as often as in water). ... :>> Hunt uses his 80% figure to back up his postural feeding hypothesis. ... :>> showed that bipedalism, although rare, was most highly correlated ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Elaine Morgan OBE
    ... that it was usually in the context of postural feeding - hence Hunt's ... feeding as evidence for the evolution of obligate bipedalism. ... clearly got little to do with obligate human walking. ... been that in a quarter of the encounters where bonobos were wading, ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Bipedal Orrorin?
    ... >> I repeat that evidence, yes, as evidence for the wading hypothesis, ... >> Hunt uses his 80% figure to back up his postural feeding hypothesis. ... >> associated with bipedalism. ... >> deep water does so more. ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)