Chinese & Maya writing systems

From: Yuri Kuchinsky (yuku_at_trends.ca)
Date: 08/23/04 

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:22:16 -0400

Dylan Sung wrote
in article <2op5idFcg315U1@uni-berlin.de>:
>
> "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:4125217F.693D@worldnet.att.net...
> > Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:

> > > I'm opposed to Diffusionism because Diffusionism is not a
> > > valid scientific theory.
> > >
> > > What is Diffusionism, in any case? How is it defined? After
> > > some investigation, I've discovered that there's simply no
> > > valid definition of Diffusionism.
> > >
> > > As to the connections between Chinese and Maya writing, it's
> > > simply the matter of observation. One doesn't need to
> > > subscribe to any theory to observe these similarities.
> >
> > I will ask you a third time. What are these similarities?
>
> They both fit into squarish blocks. Each have elements which get repeated in
> other glyphs. They're glyphs and have variants. They're used for writing
> their own languages. There are pictographic elements in each writing. There
> are phonetic elements in each writing system. That they have so much in
> common, they must be related or something.... Moreover the people of both
> cultures use jade, that clinches it. They must be one and the same in
> origin... Somehow, the Koreans may have something to do with it, dongyi or
> something.
>
> :P
> Dyl.

Hello, Dylan,

You're got a pretty comprehensive list here of the
similarities which really should be rather obvious.

Such as,

-- They're glyphs and have variants.
-- Each have elements which get repeated in other glyphs.
-- They both fit into squarish blocks.
-- There are pictographic elements in each writing.
-- There are phonetic elements in each writing system.

Too bad that for some here all this is complete news... :)

Since these two writing systems seem to have quite a few
things in common, they might be related in some way. But
this is a matter of debate...

You also note that the people of both cultures use jade. But
this is just one of dozens of such things that connects
them. Have you ever read Needham and Gwei-Djen?

Joseph Needham, Lu Gwei-Djen, TRANS-PACIFIC ECHOES AND
RESONANCES: LISTENING ONCE AGAIN. Singapore; Philadelphia:
World Scientific, 1985.

That's a pretty comprehensive listing of the cultural
parallels between China and the Americas, with an additional
bibliography.

On p. 16, Needham and Gwei-Djen write that these parallels
between Chinese and Maya writing have been first commented
upon already nearly two centuries ago, in 1813, by Alexander
von Humboldt.

They also comment upon the similarities in the reading order
between Chinese and Maya writing (something you failed to
note).

The Mayan hieroglyphics were generally written in paired
vertical columns; they read from left to right, and then top
to bottom, in a sort of a zigzag pattern.

As I understand it, the reading order in the ancient Chinese
was similar if not the same.

Needham and Gwei-Djen also note similar types of
indentations in the Chinese and Maya inscriptions.

And further, they write,

"On the pictographic side, some of the writings from the
Shih-chai Shan culture (4th to 1st centuries BCE) are
notably similar to those of the Aztec codices (Fig. 1) [the
illustration in the back of the book shows some archaic
Chinese ideograms remarkably similar to the ones that are
typical in Meso-America]." (p. 16)

Also, Needham and Gwei-Djen provide the following further
refs:

Chiang Khang-Hu, ON CHINESE STUDIES, (Shanghai: Com. Press,
1934). p. 380.

E. C. Bunker, THE TIEN CULTURE AND SOME ASPECTS OF ITS
RELATIONSHIP TO THE DONG-SON CULTURE, in EARLY CHINESE ART
AND ITS POSSIBLE INFLUENCE IN THE PACIFIC BASIN, ed. N.
Barnard, (1974), p. 296.

R. C. Rudolph, REGIONAL REPORT: CHINA MAINLAND -- AN
IMPORTANT DONG-SON SITE IN YUNNAN [SHIH-CHAI SHAN], in ASIAN
PERSPECTIVES (Honolulu), 4 (no. 1), (1961), p. 47.

And here's one more useful item,

Paul Arnold, EL LIBRO MAYA DE LOS MUERTOS, Mexico; Editorial
Diana, 1986 (219 pages).

This book icludes some helpful illustrations that compare
Mayan and the Chinese ideograms.

All the best,

Yuri.

Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.trends.ca/~yuku

The goal proposed by Cynic philosophy is apathy, which is
equivalent to becoming God -=O=- Julian

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