Re: A China-Sumer connection

phippsmartin_at_hotmail.com
Date: 02/20/05 

Date: 20 Feb 2005 02:12:44 -0800

Lee Sau Dan wrote:
> >>>>> "phippsmartin" == phippsmartin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com>
writes:
>
> Did the Summerians ever use a 10 heavenly stem + 12 earthly
stem
> system? If so, then I'd agree that there could be a link between
the
> Summerians and Chinese base 60 cycles. Otherwise, I'd see it as
a
> coincidence. The Chinese 60 arises the least common multiple of
10
> and 12, whereas the Summerians for some reasons chose 60.
>
> BTW, there aren't that many small numbers that can divide 1, 2, 3,
4,
> 5 and 6 evenly. (Exercise for you: find the numbers that can divide
1
> to 6 evenly.)

Actually, my Ph.D. is in physics, not the social sciences. Yes, I
realise that only multiples of 60 can be divided by the numbers 1, 2,
3, 4, 5 and 6 evenly. In fact, only multiples of 60 can be divided by
4, 5 and 6 evenly.

Again, I suppose 10 is important because we have ten fingers and 12 is
important because there are (at least) twelve months in a year.

> phippsmartin> Both the Sumerians and the Chinese also created
a
> phippsmartin> twelve hour day in analogy with the twelve months
of
> phippsmartin> the year. Both the Sumerians and the Chinese
liked
> phippsmartin> to create these analogies, with the
Sumerian
> phippsmartin> creating a 360 degree clock in analogy with
the
> phippsmartin> 365.25 day year
>
> I don't think the Chinese ever invented the idea of dividing a
circle
> into 360 degrees. What's your point?

Maybe not, but the Chinese had to know how to measure angles in order
to devise a solar calendar. How did the Chinese measure angles? They
could have done it either by creating a unit for measuring degrees or
by geometric construction. Either way, it's an amazing accomplishment
for any culture. Maybe the Chinese developed it first and the
Sumerians learned it from them, perhaps indirectly. Or vice versa.

> phippsmartin> and the Chinese creating a 12 month astrological
> phippsmartin> cycle to corespond to the twelve months of the
year.
>
> Sorry, I meant 12 year.
>
> And don't you know that the Chinese words for "month" and "moon"
> are the same?

Dui. Wo zhidao le. The English word month of course is also related
to the word moon.

> phippsmartin> Even the symbols themselves are similar.
>
> Any examples?

In the sense that they are ideographs, not that they look the same.
The symbol for Aquarius looks like flowing water, for example.

> phippsmartin> The Sumerians developed a writing system
that
> phippsmartin> consisted of ideographs that represented both
the
> phippsmartin> meaning and sound of the spoken word. The
Sumerians
> phippsmartin> passed this idea on to the Egyptians, the
Cretians
> phippsmartin> and the Greeks, who rejected the idea in favour of
a
> phippsmartin> phonetic alphabet invented around 800 BC. The
only
> phippsmartin> other cultures to develop this kind of
writing
> phippsmartin> system were the Mayans and the Chinese.
>
> Wrong. One other tribe probably invented a logographic writing
system
> independently: the Yi minority living in South-western China.
Their
> system is very different from the Chinese one, with perhaps only
one
> thing in common: they're both logographic.

I'm curious. Wouldn't that system of writing have been banned by
Emperor Qin? How do we even know of it today? My understanding was
that there were many forms of writing that existed in Emperor Qin's day
and he banned all but what he considered standard Chinese writing.

Martin

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