Re: Reasons for apparent Technological Superiority of West over East?


"Sylvia Knörr" <Sylvia.Knoerr_NoSpam_@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:dmlk71$b6m$00$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> "Comm" <no@xxxxxxxx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:ykxif.6216$N45.3003@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Because they were still at a hunter-gatherer level and didn't have any
> domisticated plants or animals when they settled in Australia. They were
> scarcely scattered groups of people, well adapted to their environment and
> had little reason to change their way of life until the arrival of
> Europeans.

Ehh... how they got to Australia was not a route hostile to more advanced
strategies.
>

>> The main thrust is that some places are north-south and others are
>> east-west. China is also east - west.
>
> Yes, the alignment of land masses had great impact on the spreading of
> plants, animals, cultural achievements and ideas until humans had the
> technological means to overcome these obstacles.

You mean until some humans thought up technological means to overcome
obstacles. That requires a lot of intelligence - and foresight. That would
mean that those humans also selected in favor of such traits as intelligence
and foresight. I mean, the stuff just doesn't happen in a vacuum - no
matter how many excuses "environmentalists" make for why SOME folks just
never "got it." James Michael Howard has pretty strong proof as to why ANY
humans ever left Africa in the first place - I agree with what he's
basically saying. That those that left were people that had lower levels of
testosterone - and hence were less aggressive. They left probably because
they were bullied, picked on and HAD to get out. It's why every one else
leaves such areas, by the way. they call it "white flight" but no - it's not
just white flight.
>
>> At several moments in
>> > history tables COULD have turned, e.g., the Chinese could as well have
>> > become the dominant culture of the earth. But they chose some kind of
>> > isolationism, so the Europeans could conquer huge areas while China was
> in
>> > a "dormant mode".
>
>> That's still an excuse. Chinese people "chose" one thing. European
> people
>> "chose" another thing. Pray tell, why did these two peoples CHOOSE such
>> different things? That's MY essential question.
>
> For the same reason why individuals make different decisions depending on
> their personal biography. After all, it was not "China" or "Europe" who
> chose anything, it was some LEADERS of the Chinese and European people -
> individuals! Whether a decision turns out to be right or wrong can only be
> understood in the hindsight.

No, I don't see that "one leader" does this or that. Governments tend to
work bottom up, not top down. What the people wanted, for the most part -
is what they got. Even modern China was very reluctant to modernize - like
using machine to do what a village of people can do. Their ideas about it,
imo, were very good. Machines put the village out of work. Things are more
in balance the other way. But Chinese people have a strong foresight and
are very intelligent - they have FOUND a way to modernize AND no one is
starving there, everyone is pretty well off and useful with a job.
>
> It boils down to the
>> nature of the people in the environment. I notice (and I would notice
>> it
>> because it's very different from the way my kind are) that Anglos, some
>> Germanics, Nordics in general tend to be kinda naive. My kind are pretty
>> cunning. And so, a lot of times it seems to us that these Anglos are
> dumb.
>> But they aren't dumb at all. They're just very different. Their
>> concepts
>> of "honor, fairness" and such innate things that come from their soul,
>> so-to-speak, are very different from ours. As such, if we practice
> business
>> with them uh, the way Jews might do it (same as us) they might HATE us
>> eventually. But we never did that :-D. Definitely, the concept of "all
> is
>> fair in war" of the Chinese are a LOT close to our concepts - and alien
>> to
>> western or nordic concepts. I would not mind being a prisoner in an
> English
>> or Swedish jail. I'm sure one of them would die the first day in a Tatar
>> prison. Why is that? The environment we hailed from can be said to be
>> extremely icy, cold and harsh - but then again, we CHOSE to move into
>> that
>> area and liked it there. Adapted to it. No one bothered us there. When
> we
>> ventured out, history shows that we tended to bother a whole lot of
> people,
>> tho :). But why is that? Our idea of the Semite (meaning Arabic types)
> was
>> that of a soft man, soft people, weak and broken. We never thought for a
>> second that it had to do with their round eyes, big noses and color. We
>> thought it was their ENVIRONMENT. But they chose to live in that
>> environment - and it shaped them the same as they shaped it. Same for
>> everyone else. It's not a one way thing. Environment does not just
>> shape
>> people. People shape environment too - they CHOOSE to stay there or
>> leave
>> there, too. They can change it, alter it, move away from it and so
>> forth.
>> My people were nomads up until Lenin's time. We chose that, it made us
>> strong, easily able to adapt too. We aren't stupid - but we never cared
>> a
>> bit for "civilization" and looked down on it as soft and weak. When we
>> conquered them, they got GREATER, tho, not lesser. Why is that?
>
> I agree that humans and environment undergo a "co-adaption". But that
> doesn't contradict Diamond's thesis generally, he just puts some more
> stress
> on the environment. Maybe he is a tad too rigid to deny the possibility of
> "collective traits" of ethnic groups.

Diamond is one of those guys that refuses to believe that races exist at
all. He'd never admit the FACT that they also have some innate behaviors,
for the most part, in general. Yet now it turns out that basically, what
you see with your eyes pretty much matches up with genetics.
>
>> Diamond doesn't answer a great deal of questions - but he makes very
>> great
>> excuses for people that "get it" and those that "don't get it." How long
>> have Africans been there? Long time? Nothing there? British come in,
>> colonials come in and BINGO - the place is prospering, including the
> shared
>> modern medicine (Chinese would not have shared it). Now the colonials
>> are
>> gone. Take a look at the place again. Why is that?
>
> I would call it a culture clash. African and European peoples went
> separate
> ways for thousands of years, and when they met again, they had developed
> quite different adaptions, with Europeans miles ahead at the technological
> level.
>
>> China closed up like a clam - AGAIN. Weird. Twice that happened after
>> dealing with the same people. Weird.
>
> Don't know whether the contacts with Africans were crucial for the Chinese
> decisions to follow the path of isolation, I guess the reasons were more
> complex than that. But I think Asians and Africans simply are as different
> as cats and dogs - they just can't get along with each other very well
> (though there might be exceptions). Consequently it is just wise to avoid
> each other.

Agree. They generally do - unless someone else tries to shove them
together.
>
>


.

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