Re: Reasons for apparent Technological Superiority of West over East?

In article <dn5bj2$cg9$02$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Sylvia.Knoerr_NoSpam_@t-
online.de says...
>
>
>"Comm" <no@xxxxxxxx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>news:vSokf.9311$wf.2273@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> "Sylvia Knörr" <Sylvia.Knoerr_NoSpam_@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:dmlk71$b6m$00$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > "Comm" <no@xxxxxxxx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> > news:ykxif.6216$N45.3003@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>> > Because they were still at a hunter-gatherer level and didn't have any
>> > domisticated plants or animals when they settled in Australia. They were
>> > scarcely scattered groups of people, well adapted to their environment
>and
>> > had little reason to change their way of life until the arrival of
>> > Europeans.
>
>> Ehh... how they got to Australia was not a route hostile to more advanced
>> strategies.
>
>That's true, but Australia didn't have plants and animals which suited well
>for domestication. So the people just remained at the hunter-gatherer level.
>
>> >> The main thrust is that some places are north-south and others are
>> >> east-west. China is also east - west.
>
>> > Yes, the alignment of land masses had great impact on the spreading of
>> > plants, animals, cultural achievements and ideas until humans had the
>> > technological means to overcome these obstacles.
>
>> You mean until some humans thought up technological means to overcome
>> obstacles. That requires a lot of intelligence - and foresight.
>
>Not only that. People also needed a REASON to overcome obstacles. Usually
>people don't cross mountains and oceans unless they have some kind of
>necessity to do that.
>
> That would
>> mean that those humans also selected in favor of such traits as
>intelligence
>> and foresight. I mean, the stuff just doesn't happen in a vacuum - no
>> matter how many excuses "environmentalists" make for why SOME folks just
>> never "got it." James Michael Howard has pretty strong proof as to why
>ANY
>> humans ever left Africa in the first place - I agree with what he's
>> basically saying. That those that left were people that had lower levels
>of
>> testosterone - and hence were less aggressive. They left probably because
>> they were bullied, picked on and HAD to get out. It's why every one else
>> leaves such areas, by the way. they call it "white flight" but no - it's
>not
>> just white flight.
>
>I agree that humans were selected in favor of intelligence, that's evident.
>Yet I'm sceptical about the reasons you suggest why people move to other
>places. Even if the testosterone and aggressivity levels might have
>triggered some migration movements, there were probably other reasons as
>well, like a deterioration of the climate, water and food supply, moving
>with the prey etc.
>
>> > For the same reason why individuals make different decisions depending
>on
>> > their personal biography. After all, it was not "China" or "Europe" who
>> > chose anything, it was some LEADERS of the Chinese and European people -
>> > individuals! Whether a decision turns out to be right or wrong can only
>be
>> > understood in the hindsight.
>
>> No, I don't see that "one leader" does this or that. Governments tend to
>> work bottom up, not top down. What the people wanted, for the most part -
>> is what they got.
>
>You got a point here.
>
>Even modern China was very reluctant to modernize - like
>> using machine to do what a village of people can do. Their ideas about
>it,
>> imo, were very good. Machines put the village out of work. Things are
>more
>> in balance the other way. But Chinese people have a strong foresight and
>> are very intelligent - they have FOUND a way to modernize AND no one is
>> starving there, everyone is pretty well off and useful with a job.
>
>Yes, maybe the Chinese will prevail in the long run. They tend to reach high
>effectivity with what they are doing.
>
>> > I agree that humans and environment undergo a "co-adaption". But that
>> > doesn't contradict Diamond's thesis generally, he just puts some more
>> > stress
>> > on the environment. Maybe he is a tad too rigid to deny the possibility
>of
>> > "collective traits" of ethnic groups.
>
>> Diamond is one of those guys that refuses to believe that races exist at
>> all. He'd never admit the FACT that they also have some innate behaviors,
>> for the most part, in general. Yet now it turns out that basically, what
>> you see with your eyes pretty much matches up with genetics.
>
>Diamond just claims that the differences among races are NOT the relevant
>factor for the differences of economic standards like we have them today.
>Personally, I think there *ARE* innate racial behaviors, but the differences
>are not strong enough that we couldn't level them by education, environment
>etc.
>
>> >> China closed up like a clam - AGAIN. Weird. Twice that happened
>after
>> >> dealing with the same people. Weird.
>
>> > Don't know whether the contacts with Africans were crucial for the
>Chinese
>> > decisions to follow the path of isolation, I guess the reasons were more
>> > complex than that. But I think Asians and Africans simply are as
>different
>> > as cats and dogs - they just can't get along with each other very well
>> > (though there might be exceptions). Consequently it is just wise to
>avoid
>> > each other.
>
>> Agree. They generally do - unless someone else tries to shove them
>> together.
>
>I agree with you that people shouldn't be forcefully shoved together *IF*
>there is room enough for them to live separately. But if they live together
>in one place, there shouldn't be any apartheid.
>
Kia Ora
Just sittin' on the sideline here. Fascinated!
Now I'm prompted to do some study for myself. Thanks everyone for their input.
Haere Mai
Mac

.

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