Re: Personal safety distance (Re: Raceing Humanity...)


"Comm" <no@xxxxxxxx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:QDqkf.8666$N45.5583@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> "Sylvia Knörr" <Sylvia.Knoerr_NoSpam_@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:dmqsud$96l$00$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > "Comm" <no@xxxxxxxx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:bCxif.6538$wf.3807@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> "Sylvia Knörr" <Sylvia.Knoerr_NoSpam_@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> news:dltsed$a2g$01$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> >> > Maybe it's not only about pheromones, but a culture thing as well.

> >> I think it's pheromones. The reaction is spontaneous, it's way too
instant
> >> and fast to be cultural. I have no idea WHAT the culture of the person
is
> >> when I get the "YUCH" feeling. There is no conversation, nothing.
Just
> >> instant feeling.

> > If it were just the pheromones, couldn't we expect that everyone
> > everywhere
> > got the same safety distance (or nearness) for either people he or she
> > finds attractive or people with adverse scent?

> Nope. Too often someone LIKES the pheromones of one group - but the
feeling
> is absolutely NOT reciprocated - not at all.

That would mean that some ethnicities are more open towards strangers than
others. I think this would fit into your theory that black people generally
are more "including" than others (sorry if I don't hit your exact words, I
just remember what you said in an older thread, on top of my head).

That is, like group A is
> highly attracted to group B, but group B wants NOTHING TO DO with group A
> and can't get far enough away from them. Group A might try to intrude on
> things of group B, try to move closer to them again. Group B just moves
> away again. I've seen this going on here for 4 decades, by the way.

Yes, just like love, those emotional inclinations depending on pheromones
might be often one-sided. Alas.

> > It happened to me that I felt uneasy when talking to certain Spanish
people,
> > although I actually LIKED them - they just came too close. As soon as I
> > could get some more space between us, everything was alright.
> > I think that's just a different body language.

> Bet you 2 to 1 that certain OTHER Spanish people would not elicit that
> reaction from you. I get it too, btw, with some - but not with others.

Correct, but it happened to me more than once with Spaniards, so I think it
*MIGHT* be a general trait, no matter what the cause may be.

> >> There was
> >> > a research about the average distance which two (unrelated) persons
> >> > keep in
> >> > a trifling converstion, depending on nationality. Though I can't come
up
> >> > with the stats (sorry, it was in a magazine years ago), I remember
that
> >> > the Southern Europeans (Spaniards, Italians, Greeks etc) didn't need
the
> >> > same "safety distance" as Northern Europeans like Swedes, Germans,
Dutch
> >> > etc) when talking to a fellow countryman.

> >> I notice that when I'm talking to my North European friends, by about
30
> >> minutes into the conversation they are about an INCH away from me - and
> >> vice versa. We get closer and closer as we speak - without even
realizing
> >> it - tho I did TRY to take notice after reading a similar study - which
is why
> >> I now notice it :) The complete opposite happens with some other
ethnic
> >> groups.

> > Interesting that you connect it with ethnic groups. Of course we get
close
> > to someone we LIKE, and someone we TRUST.

> Nope, has nothing to do with that. I mean exactly what I said, no ifs,
> ands, buts of exceptions. I do not have to know the person AT ALL - it
> could be a complete stranger and we get close.

What I meant was that we use to instinctively "trust" some ethnicities more
than others, because of personal experiences or prejudices or whatever - the
trust must not necessarily be based on KNOWING the other one.

Then again, it could be a
> person I know very very well and have implicite trust in - and YUCH. If
> it's pheromones, I know it. It's very distinct. I think it's what makes
> groups like and dislike each other, innately, even if they TRY HARD to
like
> each other, even if they FIND REASONS why they DO get along and DO like
each
> other - that initial reaction is always there and it WILL dictate the
> behavior, sooner or later. Humans are no different from other animals.
We
> are also animals.

That's right, maybe pheromones play a role in how peoples get along with
each other, just like languages, looks, or bahavior patterns. Maybe we are
just not aware of these distinctions because pheromones are much harder to
describe and to display than other human properties.

> > I rather wanted to compare those towards who we are indifferent to. If I
> > have a conversation with someone like that , I want to have his/her face
> > an armlength away from mine, no matter which ethnicity this person has.

> You might want that, but that might not be what you end up with. I
> certainly don't plan to get one inch away from someone, a stranger I just
> met - nor does she plan to get one inch away from me. We start out at
arm's
> length and end up one inch away if the pheromones are good both ways.
Other
> times, I've noticed a person inching toward me without even realizing it -
> and me inching away. AND vice versa! And it has nothing at all to do
with
> how much I know the person or trust the person. Yuch is yuch - and no
> matter how many GOOD qualities and GOOD relations I might have with the
long
> trusted friend, if SOMETHING untoward comes up, my reaction against that
> person is WAY stronger than my reaction to a person whose pheromones click
> with mine. WAY stronger. One anthropologist once called this innate
amity
> and innate emnity.

Since our reaction to pheromones belongs to the realm of INSTINCTS, it is
almost impossible for us to gain control over it.

> >> I did - I've been keeping note of it when I remember to "notice it"
since
> >> the 1970s when a fellow at old med school job mentioned pheromones.
The
> >> pheromone reaction is instant - there isn't even any conversation going
on.
> >> It's an instant YUCH, like "SCEVE get away." Oh, sceve, that's slang
for
> >> I think the word is schmutz? Like, you shake hands with a stranger, no
> >> words spoken yet, and you unconsciously wipe your hand off on your
pants.
> >> That's pheromones. It's a subtle feeling - but very very distinct
once you
> >> notice it.

> > I understand what you mean, and I experienced this repulsing effect many
> > times - often with Germans. This pheromone thing is working at the
> > INDIVIDUAL level, it seems.

> Yes, more or less, but Germans are not just one ethnic group. I get YUCH
> from Swabians.

So do I, but more from their dialect. LOL...

> > But maybe the members of certain ethnic groups
> > have similar pheromone patterns, and you have a liking (or disgust) for
> > some of them.

> Yes, it's definitely an in-general thing becuase as I said, not all
Germans
> ARE the same ethnic group. Not all Hispanics are either.

Genetically homogenous peoples are hard to find anyway, and large parts of
Europe are like a melting pot.

> > I go to a ballroom dancing German club - Germans tend to get, heh, on
> >> top of me when they talk (or dance) to me. LMAO. They also have this
habit
> >> of GRABBING me, or grabbing my hand and holding it up against
themselves
> >> when they want to say something. Women do it too, big time. I DO
notice
> >> who they tend to get further away from (the same people I want to get
> >> away from). Pheromones. I know it is. That's also how I know
absolutely
> >> that Turks from Turkey are nothing like Tatars (who are real Turks).
> >> PHEROMONES.
> >> With Slavs and Tatars - oh, I could eat them up, I want to BITE them,
lol.
> >> I can't get close enough - and I do NOT mean anything sexual here at
all.
> >> I get that with SOME Germans and Scandinavians. Not all. But with
those from
> >> Turkey, or Arabia? AAAAH ptewey, YUCH, get away! I can't fathom how
> >> Turks from Turkey must interact with Germans. PHEW. OH, and
Serbians - they
> >> are NOT like the E. Slavs in Russia at all. Serbs - YUCH. But the E.
Slavs
> >> from Russia and there abouts? I could BITE them. I can't get close
enough.
> >> That also tends to make me see these people as cosmically, absolutely,
CUTE.
> >> Cutsy cute. The epitome of cute. :) I do realize that many others
see us
> >> all as kinda diabolical looking, we look like cats or wolves - LMAO.
NO
> >> NO - CUTE CUTE.

> > Hehe, I think you are quite aware of your instincts, so you probably had
> > no problems to find the adequate mating partner. ;-)

> :-D. Instinct, imo, is the highest form of intelligence. It guides the
> senses which then, in turn, guide the logic.

Instincts are our OLDEST form of intelligence, and we should always take
into consideration what they tell us.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Personal safety distance (Re: Raceing Humanity...)
    ... >>> Maybe it's not only about pheromones, but a culture thing as well. ... The reaction is spontaneous, it's way too ... person I know very very well and have implicite trust in - and YUCH. ... Yes, more or less, but Germans are not just one ethnic group. ...
    (sci.anthropology)
  • Re: Personal safety distance (Re: Raceing Humanity...)
    ... > Maybe it's not only about pheromones, but a culture thing as well. ... I go to a ballroom dancing German club - Germans tend to get, heh, on ... That also tends to make me see these people as cosmically, absolutely, CUTE. ...
    (sci.anthropology)
  • Re: Personal safety distance (Re: Raceing Humanity...)
    ... >> Maybe it's not only about pheromones, but a culture thing as well. ... I go to a ballroom dancing German club - Germans tend to get, heh, on ... > Cutsy cute. ...
    (sci.anthropology)