Re: 'Face' cultures (Re: Frankfurt School)

Hi, see in. I'm snipping a lot .

"Sylvia Knörr" <Sylvia.Knoerr_NoSpam_@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Comm" <no@xxxxxxxx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
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Well, I wouldn't call it 'bull***' generally. Honor translates to
reputation, and it can make a difference on a person's status, job,
income,
mating partners - you name it. People usually have a REASON to care about
honor.

Well, a society that sees an individual tied up with all that other
extraneous stuff is imo - DUMB. If people have to worry 24/7 about
reputation - then where is freedom? The people in that society would be
ruled by fear. That's my point, it's why I call it bull***.

PC is draconian tyranny where everyone learns better methods of lying to
everyone and scheming. It's Big Brother.

PC may have been an invention of good intentions - rules to provide
RESPECT
in human communication. But more and more it has overrun its aims, and
turned into tyranny, yes.

It has become a vehicle by which non-Europeans TRASH Europeans - and that's
OK.


Okay, but this doesn't explain why in some societies gender relationships
are more or less egalitarian, while in others women suffer harsh
suppression. I'm talking about societies of comparable standards of
development, not First world vs Third world societies.

You sure about that? Seems to me that the most modern First World countries
have the most gender equality. The most backward crapholes of countries in
what we call Third World do not. Their values are mideval.

This way, for females it is most important to have the freedom of
choice,
and that's why I wonder why women could let happen such things like in
Saudi
Arabia or Afghanistan where women have practically no say of who will
be
the father of their babies.

Women let it happen? Heh, men are bigger and stronger than them. Think
again. Macho is a bully culture, no matter who does it.

Yes, but like I said above - it didn't happen everywhere to the same
degree.

Yes it did at one time. Only very recently do women in First World
countries have equality. Maybe you don't realize how RECENT this First
World mentality is. VERY recent. Women didn't even have the right to vote
in the USA until relatively recently!

There must be something which 'triggers' and supports macho behavior, and
there must be something which supports female influence.

Sure - a reason to select in favor of bullyish, brutish people instead of
intelligence and peaceful natures. Some of the men of these brutish
cultures have measurably more testosterone than other men - see website and
posts of James Michael Howard for ALL you could want to know about
testosterone. What supported female influence in First World countries
was - heh, that same old Cultural Marxism that we also have much to rail
against. It's really something very recent.

And also, watch out when you say Moslems. My cousins are Moslems.
The
girls are as wild and free as me - and so are the guys. They aren't
SEMITES, tho. They are Tatars. I knew Egyptian Moslems at the med
school -
and the women were PUSHY and very assertive. So not all Moslems are
the
same. I know Moslems from Malay uh.. Malaysia? Malaya? (I never
quite
get that one right, he's in our egroup) and from Indonesia. They
aren't like
that at all. Perhaps this is not a climate thing specifically, or a
religious thing - but maybe it's heh, RACIAL? I think it is.

Got more info from my the Asian in our egroup - he went to Arabia and
well,
he felt like he was in a land of aliens. In no way could he relate to
those
people at all, or feel comfortable with them in even the most casual
circumstances.

Yes, I think the Asian and the Arab versions of Islam are quite distinct
due
to culture differences.

Cultural differences perhaps. Some might say racial differences. Who
knows. But they ARE very different.

Yes, Moslems are not all the same, but I do some generalizing because
most
of us will share a common idea of a "typical" Moslem.

Heh, I really don't t hink so. Maybe I'm wrong. I dont share any common
view of ANY person in one religion, or race, at all. I mean for real.
They're all just too different. Now when I'm being a royal bitch - heh,
I
can trash every religion and ethnic group on the planet, including my own
:)
and make the worst stereotypes (and giggle as I type every word). I get
into my moods, :)

It's difficult to talk about certain GROUPS of humans without a little
stereotypizing.

Well, the stereotypes are even used by comedians and people in those grouops
recognize THEMSELVES very easily - and they think it's funny. The
stereotypes are based on real experiences people have had.

A Japanese might also start a fight - very much in public. You have some
odd ideas about the Japanese!

Just from what I see. My hometown is a tourist place with lots of
Americans,
Japanese, Spaniards and Italians. In all these many years living here I
NEVER observed a single act of aggression of a Japanese.

TOURISTS. They are not an objective sample. I can remember at least 3
times a Japanese male got out of his car and was ready to start a physical
fight with me for merely beeping my horn at him (cuz he was taking TOO LONG
at a toll booth). They were Japanese, they were cursing in what clearly
sounded like Japanese LOL. They didn't continue to the point of fighting
me - maybe noticed I was a girl and I guess backed off - I say that cuz they
looked up at me, seemed surprised, and then backed off. LOL. On the other
hand, maybe they figured I might have a gun because I did not flinch a bit
when they did this - I just watched them kinda expressionless. I can
remember Vietnamese people going ape *** over a small, TINY dent a friend
made in their car while parking - they got out, FURIOUS, stood there
pointing and screaming, "you make HORE in caa, you make HORE in caa" LMAO.
It was the FUNNIEST thing I ever saw. The FIERCE looks on their faces,
PHEW. Meanwhile, my friend, a real nordic type of NW European guy, stood
there like a stoical statue waiting for them to calm down, with his wallet
and insurance papers out. LMAO. It was HILARIOUS to see this. It's funny
even now, 30 years later. My dentist's wife (both are Chinese Americans)
divorced him because she said he had a violent temper - and she had no
qualms about letting EVERYONE know the details about all of it. So there
goes the whole "they don't show it" idea. I wouldn't tend to show anger or
get into a miff if I was vacationing as a tourist either, you know. It's
just that it's a strange place, not my home turf, and I'd just NOT behave
that way on strange turf.


Same thing anywhere. Wealth breeds leisure and what I think of as
endorphin
driven cultures (natural, not drugs). These are the opposite from
adrenalin
driven cultures.

Huh? You think some cultures have higher average endorphine/ adrenaline
levels?

Sure. Measurably so. A culture where you have dog eat dog and have to
struggle 24/7 is adrenalin driven. A culture where I lay back and type to
you and then go watch the Sopranos is endorphin driven. Simple. Once
people get used to that leisure - they don't want to lose it! It's ALL
biochemistry, you know.

And in endorphin driven cultures, heh, people have more
rights to choose options, especially smarter people - and women well,
LOTS
of them don't want to be bothered with a 24/7 18 year long
responsibility,
perhaps too many women don't want to be botherd with the burdens of the
whole primate placental birth thing, vomiting more than once a day for 3
months, all of that. They either don't want them - or they are willing
to
abort them. That's what choice shows they choose WHEN they have so much
leisure and fun instead. Endorphin driven societies, leisure and fun -
people do not want to give that up and revert to hard times. Everyone
in
the USA knows damed well, eg, that we bombed a bunch of people and made
them
suffer for years cuz we are addicted to the pleasures that OIL and
traveling
by car give us - the whole society runs on electricity - mostly from oil
products. So? So they go along with any bull*** that "justifies"
taking
it - by any means necessary. Ya see?

Well, I see that people prefer an easy life over a hard life, and once
they
have it easy, they kind of get addicted to that liefstyle. Like drug
addicts
they do a lot of things to justify and perpetuate their addiction.

Yes. Only it's not drugs per se. It's natural state of biochemisty.
People DO NOT like stress.

The 60ies produced a lot of stupid things, but I don't see it all
negative.
Of course, things in Germany were different from what happened in the
USA.

I see it as thoroughly negative - it led to the rise in Frankfurt School
power, alienation from family stuff, the REaction to the disaster and now
the rise in fundie thinking - all banded together fundies, too with
CLOUT.
It led to the set in stone duming down of education, the draconian
tyranny
known as PC, and really stupid kids and teens that can't even think and
have
NO CONCEPTION of individualism. ***, they get their roles from TV sit
com
crap and start to act like that.

But it led to female emancipation and greater racial equality on the other
side. So it wasn't all bad. :-)

It led to greater female emancipation (and lack of a positive birth rate -
which is NOT so good for a population) and well, it didn't lead to racial
equality - it led to ANTI EUROPEAN racism to the point of "it's OK to
destroy European cultures."


And ALL these people from these groups notice
specific differences about me and mine - and they notice the same stuff,
especially that "lack of time passing" thing. I have learned to
apologise
for it - as I did at the top of this post :) all of that "you gotta do
***
that you definitely do not want to do" when it's not on a job you are
being
paid to do - none of that makes sense to me - and ALL Europeans and
Asians
you are discussing have it. That whole "honor" thing - I can't even
relate
to it or understand it. I understand vendetta (heh, revenge!). I can't
even relate to "what will the neighbors think" ***. I just can't.
Like,
why would anyone CARE what anyone else thinks? Are they afraid? Yeah, I
think so - afraid of what, what someone might SAY? Or what someone might
think? I have no idea even IF the neighbors think about me. I don't
think
about them. They don't exist unless they are in front of my face saying
something to me. They could vanish tomorrow and I'd not notice it (that
already happened with other neighbors).

You simply can AFFORD not to care what your neighbors think, because you
don't really NEED them. Other people with less aloofness might feel an
urge
to be in accordance with their neighborhood.

The question is - WHY? When I ask them, they usually have no answer - and
they don't need their neighbors either.

I don't see much difference between general "European" cultures and
general
"Asian" cultures. I DO see a difference between Swedish and Italian, for
instance, or Japanes and Chinese for instance. But in general, the
examples
you are giving - I just don't see it and I personally know a lot of
people
of these cultures and have known them in the past. Now I do see a
difference between European civilization and Asian civilization - BIG
differences.

Obviously we both *DO* see differences, but we draw the lines differently.




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