Re: German population in Europe after fall of Roman Empire.
From: Seppo Renfors (Renfors_at_not.com.au)
Date: 07/02/04
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Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 14:34:18 GMT
Inger E Johansson wrote:
>
> Seppo,
> No people migrating into Götaland AFTER Late Stone Age before 1100 AD. No
> group ever conquered the Goths who definitely with 100% certainty origined
> from Östergötland and Västergötland.
I would have a problem with that as a general statement. I know that
some very early migration originating from somewhere around the Danube
area did occur as it ended up in Western parts of Finland via Sweden.
Part of that was the Battle Axe culture and one other that has a
reference to pottery. It then rather depends on the time you refer to
as "Late Stone Age".
> There are techniques of iron production only used in Östergötland,
> Västergötland, Öland, Småland and Gotland on larger scales. That techinque
> were more than 100 years older here then when used in other Iron production
> areas. The owens of this type have only been found in minor scales(=a few)
> and later in Poland and on North Jutland. It's more to it than that.
Here is a really different but ancient traditional way of producing
iron:
http://www.era.anthropology.ac.uk/Era_Resources/Era/P-C_Museum/smelt_index.html
(merely interesting - not relevant to this story)
> Same group -observe continuity found only in this one larger area in Europa-
> close to Europe Area - Please observe that the names are today's names but
> many of them are 'old'= Pre-Viking names.
>
> Draw a line from Motala along Lake Vaettern's eastern shore to Braaviken(I
> didn't look north of Braaviken but included the land between Braaviken and
> Slätbaken in my study) draw an other line from Motala down to Hästholmen
> half way down to Gränna. Draw one line from Hästholmen down to Gamleby(I
> included the land south of that line in my study) and let the Baltic Sea's
> western shores of each time (back to the Yoldia Sea's days) be the eastern
> border of my survey area.
>
> The part which might be of interest to this debate but hasn't been discussed
> here is that the map I drawed from waterlines of year 1000 AD on which I
> plotted each single 'fornborg' ancient castle, ancient
> defend-stonghold(except one I missed and one found later) in 'my' area and
> surrounding areas - that map gives two additative information:
> * It confirms that this area had more defense in it's outher regions and
> that each period from early Bronze Age on forward had it's strongest defense
> set on the 'best' waterway inlands for each period. That's interesting.
> Isn't it?
It is, as defences were really not needed before the Bronze age.
Neolithic people were not warlike. This ties up with that notion.
> * It show directly when compared of maps of known 'hålvägar' Ancient roads
> and or Ancient horse paths, when and where the importance to change the
> defense from mainly seaway oriented defense to defense against attacks over
> sea with men, horses etc happened. The later didn't come about in major
> scale until during Viking Age. That's interesting as well. Don't you agree.
I'm aware or a whole network of roads in Europe that date back to
before 3000 BCE. In central Europe wagon wheel tracks have been found
that date back to that time. There are roads that go from Poland to
Asia Minor, across Europe. There is one from Estonia into central
Europe as well. Another is a near coastal road along the Western shore
line down to the Iberian peninsular, just to name a few.
> As an extra information gained from that study one also can predict with
> relative certainty that up to the days of Götavirke(earlier called
> Östgötavirke) 8th-9th century.
> http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%F6tavirke
>
> for photos and information about excavations:
> http://www.archaeology.su.se/arklab/gotavirke/bilder.html
> in some ways alike Danavirke. Götavirke is about 3500 meter long
> defense-wall in the outher ends the terrain helps stop introduers.
>
> The land west of Götavirke has up to Modern Age mainly been owned or ruled
> by same families with tight ties to each other and their relatives on the
> western side of Lake Vaettern. We know this families as Royal Families of
> Sweden - Folkunga Dynasty, Sverker's Dynasty and so on. Both closely linked
> to the so called Old Royal Dynasty of Sweden and from 11th century(at least)
> with the Danish Royal Nobilty. But that's an other story.
[..]
-- SIR - Philosopher unauthorised ----------------------------------------------------------------- The one who is educated from the wrong books is not educated, he is misled. -----------------------------------------------------------------
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