Re: Copper Casting In America (Trevelyan)

From: Eric Stevens (eric.stevens_at_sum.co.nz)
Date: 07/03/04 

Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 17:54:16 +1200

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 04:12:21 GMT, Philip Deitiker
<Donevenask@worlnet.att.net> wrote:

>Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> says in
>news:p5nbe0d1j0kqo52079ol37paifgo4cjimk@4ax.com:
>
>>>access to this information; however I have seen at least 2
>>>video reports on the manufacturing of the comal, and they
>>>are not cast. The most similar cultural item I have seen is
>>>the hammered woks created from iron in china (which you can
>>>buy on the home shopping network if you are lucky). Woks
>>>being more sophisticated with handles, whereas the comal is
>>>just a large concave piece of copper.
>>
>> Why are you telling me about things that are not cast when
>> I'm telling you about things which are?
>
>Eric, Inger logic doesn't work well even when she uses it, why
>would you think it would work better when you use it. You quoted
>a source that claimed that copper tool casting was prevelant
>from south american all the way to north america. That was your
>qoute. What I was doing was expanding upon the types of tools
>that the most prevalant copper cultures in the New World had
>made, aka not cast copper. IOW, I was descrediting your source
>and your quote, however obvious that was you failed to see it.
>My opinion is that, fundimentally, you're unfamiliar with
>mesoamerican culture. [Despite lengthy number of references I
>have given last year to educate you guys on the primary research
>on the evolution on New World metallurgy]
>
>> I must ask you that question about your almost totally
>> irrelevant and unhelpful response.
>
>That is, again, because you are unfamiliar with meso and south
>american culture.

Even if I wasn't, the knowledge has almost nothing to do with NA
copper.
>
>> For my part, if you read that part of my previous article
>> which you snipped, you will see that I was responding to
>> Tom McDonalds reliance on Gary Coffman's comments on the
>> Connor site quoting Mallery - as an adequate refutaion of
>> Mallery's claims that some North American artifacts were
>> cast. I quoted at length because Tom seemed unaware of the
>> material inspite of it having been posted twice before in
>> this (or a related) thread.
>
>And what I demonstrated was that casting was not the primary
>form of copper tool formation. IOW I am discrediting Mallory's
>claim by questioning whether casting was used for tools as
>ubiguitously as believed or was it for more experimental or
>recreational activities. The tool manufactoring industry in
>mesoamerica is no secret, what appears to be is the use of
>casting in that industry.

A question by you is sufficient to discredit something?

Gee! You must be important!

>
>> Gary Coffman has not dealt with all of Mallery's claims.
>
>The claim of Mallery is self-discrediting, who needs to deal
>with it, Mallery.
>
>> That's news to me.
>
>Mallery went south. You failed to get the point.

It might look that way but only because you (again) snipped some of my
text without indicating the fact. Some people regard this as a
dishonest practice.
>
>I am by no means an expert on all metallurgy over all of the
>precolumbian americas (PCA) but I have yet to have seen a form
>or mold used in PCA to cast any metal object. If copper was
>routinely cast to form even trinkets, one would expect the molds
>for such object to be present somewhere. I am sure such molds
>probably exist somewhere; however I don't think that casting was
>a common practiced and was probably practiced amoung the elite
>metalurgist in the larger civilizations.
>
>What I have seen is pretty much what we talked about earlier
>with iron, in that partially smelted copper was fused by many
>men with mallets banging slag into comals.

Eric Stevens

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Copper Casting In America (Trevelyan)
    ... > Virtually all of the evidence presented to date in this thread is ... > against casting of ancient Michigan native copper artifacts. ... We see TWO artefacts being claimed as being cast - one being conceded ...
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  • Re: Copper Casting In America (Trevelyan)
    ... > Virtually all of the evidence presented to date in this thread is ... > against casting of ancient Michigan native copper artifacts. ... We see TWO artefacts being claimed as being cast - one being conceded ...
    (sci.anthropology)
  • Re: Copper Casting In America (Trevelyan)
    ... >a source that claimed that copper tool casting was prevelant ... >from south american all the way to north america. ... >made, aka not cast copper. ...
    (sci.anthropology)
  • Re: Copper Casting In America (Trevelyan)
    ... Casting is a technique which is used ... >been made via cold and hot-working techniques. ... some of the artifacts have been cast. ... Most of the copper ...
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  • Re: Copper Casting In America (Trevelyan)
    ... Casting is a technique which is used ... >been made via cold and hot-working techniques. ... some of the artifacts have been cast. ... Most of the copper ...
    (sci.archaeology)
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