Re: Copper Casting In America (Trevelyan)

From: Seppo Renfors (Renfors_at_not.com.au)
Date: 07/09/04 

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 05:27:24 GMT

Eric Stevens wrote:
>
> On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 06:03:39 GMT, Seppo Renfors <Renfors@not.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> --- snip ----
>
> >> One
> >> of the reasons for forging is to presever the original grain flow of
> >> the lank and that would be lost if the blank was melted.
>
> My apologies. I should have typed
>
> "One of the reasons for forging is to preserve the original grain
> flow of the blank and that would be lost if the blank was melted."
>
> http://www.efunda.com/processes/metal_processing/Forging.cfm explains
> it very concisely.

Seen it - it doesn't advance your claims at all cnosidering the "grain
flow" is not a consideration.

> >(I have no idea what relevance "long, limp, and straight" (lank) has
> >to anything here so I'll ignore the term.)
> >
> >Not true for the particular example given - other similar items are
> >cast and machined in the traditional manner. Again you only make
> >totally unsubstantiated assertions and do not speak about the reason
> >WHY at all! You know, that thing that makes it work and proves your
> >claims. Haven't you found it on the net yet?
>
> See above

Nothing there - doesn't discuss the process I mentioned.

> >So let is look at this "grain flow" claim:
> >
> >This is advertising spoof for a Japanese made Golf club:
> >"Grain Flow Forging exceeds the conventional forging process by
> >repeating the high pressure compression process to ensure a tight
> >uniform grain structure through the clubhead. Each head is forged from
> >one piece ensuring an uninhibited grain flow through the head and
> >neck."
> >
> >So there of forging and "grain flow forging" - apparently... but - no
> >hammering - hydraulically pressed from a single small billet - ie mass
> >produced by machines where SPEED of production is of prime importance.
> >Another source says:
> >
> >"Forging refines the grain structure and improves physical properties
> >of the metal. With proper design, the grain flow can be oriented in
> >the direction of principal stresses encountered in actual use. Grain
> >flow is the direction of the pattern that the crystals take during
> >plastic deformation."
>
> All fairly straightforward.

So why is it that you are totally unable to explain it?

> >So a lot of gobbledegook in reality if compared to your "expert" claim
> >of "preserves the original grain flow" and "cold". Which is a load of
> >nonsense for the example I provided - it isn't important. What IS
> >important is unit speed of production and therefor unit cost of the
> >production. So slam two dies together and form a crown wheel for a
> >Mini in a fraction of a second at tremendous pressures like up to
> >some 50,000 tons and tell me no part of it did melt at any stage! Oh
> >and you call this "cold forging", when the more correct term is
> >"Open-die forging" or "Closed-die forging" or even "Two stage
> >closed-die forging". There is nothing "cold" about it.
>
> Nor is there any melting.

A parrot on a cage can do just as good as that - therefor it is
arguable the parrot's knowledge is comparable to yours :-)

> >Oh and to finish off with the golf club:
> >
> >"Ageing the head at elevated temperature optimizes strength and
> >softness." Oh well...... so much for the "cold"....
>
> 700C is elevated but still far below melting.

You cannot know what they have in mind for "elevated" it is a relative
term and all you can relate it to is the melting point. In that case
it is far more likely the "elevated" is far greater then 700C!!

> More than enough of that subject. If you won't learn, then you won't.

Learn what? You have provided nothing to learn from! On the other
hand, you are in the process of learning youself. Here is another
lesson for you:

"A material exists as a solid when it is below its freezing point."
and "Keep in mind that a material's freezing point is the same as its
melting point." - Steve Gagnon, Science Education Specialist!

Please don't confuse "solid" with "solution" again. 

-- 
SIR - Philosopher unauthorised 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The one who is educated from the wrong books is not educated, he is
misled.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Copper Casting In America (Trevelyan)
    ... > "One of the reasons for forging is to preserve the original grain ... Seen it - it doesn't advance your claims at all cnosidering the "grain ... flow" is not a consideration. ... > 700C is elevated but still far below melting. ...
    (sci.anthropology)
  • Re: Slight brewing mishap this past weekend
    ... difference in how well they work for batch sparging. ... If so, then I will definitely shorten mine; not only will it make it simpler to connect, easier to rinse, and reduce the risk of dislodging it while stirring, but the vorlauf will probably be shorter (less surface area to need to build a grain filter around, and more wort that is flowing through more grain before reaching the bazooka). ... I also realize that it takes more time for wort to flow through a grain bed, versus its ability to flow freely once inside the mesh, and that is precisely why I suspected that longer would be better. ...
    (rec.crafts.brewing)
  • Re: Penny Wise, Pound Foolish?
    ... given the price of wood these days and the ... lot about dimensions and efficiency - and overlook the grain of the ... Forest For The Trees trap - the grain in the WHOLE piece and how they ... understandablenot surprising that the look and flow of the grain is ...
    (rec.woodworking)
  • Re: Wondering if.
    ... Or not doing anything and going with the flow. ... flood plains and direction flows come into it ... The image I have is of working with the grain rather than against it. ... Wood Avens ...
    (uk.religion.pagan)
  • Re: Beth HaWaadh Permits Eating of Kitniyoth by all Jews in Israel During Pesah
    ... grown with grain, so could be contaminated with it ... The first couple of reasons are based in laziness - Sephardim who ... The same online site where one could buy soft matza for Pesach also ... has bags of triple-checked rice. ...
    (soc.culture.jewish.moderated)