Re: Norse, Vatican and Vinland

From: Inger E Johansson (inger_e.johansson_at_notelia.com)
Date: 07/11/04 

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 15:42:09 GMT

Per Rønne,
who is ridiculous? The one who reads diplomas of the time, annals and ships
documents or the one sitting in Denmark who doesn't study the documentation
at all????

There are several good works for you to start with if you are to learn the
truth about the trade to and from Hvarf outside the fjord leading up to
Gardar!

You can start with one that deals with the best known export product Ivory:
Roesdahl Else; Hvalrostand, elfenben og nordboerne i Grønland, Odense :
Odense universitetsforl., 1995
ISSN 99-0100080-7 ; 10
ISBN: 87-89375-07-6

then you can continue with

The North Atlantic fisheries, 1100-1976 : national perspectives on a common
resource / edited by Poul Holm, Esbjerg : Fiskeri- og Søfartsmuseets Forl.,
1996 serie: Studia Atlantica, , ISSN 1396-6294 ; 1
serie: Fiskeri- og Søfartsmuseets studieserie, , ISSN 0908-3421 ; 7
Note: "Papers presented to a symposium on 'North Atlantic Fisheries History,
1100-1976', held in July 1995 on the Westman Islands, Iceland"
 ISBN: 87-87453-71-1

Then you might add:
Tving R. ; Træk af grønlandsfartens historie : A thousands years of
Greenland shipping ; alternative title: A thousands years of Greenland
shipping. ; København, 1944 serie: Det Grønlandske Selskabs skrifter, ,
ISSN 99-0099944-4 ; 13 Note.: With an English summary

When you read those you only scratch the surface of what once was the best
source of income for the Norwegian King - taxes from those who traded and/or
fished in Greenlandic waters. To get a little better picture you might look
in Diplomatarium Norwegicum, write Lynn resp. London in the searchword field
and 1200 - 1350 in the period. You will find that several of the diplomas
you have to look into will deal with ships that trade ivory = walruse ivory.
If you extend your search to other harbors in Europe and go looking for the
works made in each country re. the shipstrade from shipspapers, you will
find that there were years when more than 100 ships came via Bergen or
Orkney loaded with ivory to Central and Western Europe.

You simply hasn't got a clue of how many documents that still are preserved
out there - guess you never would take yourself time reading them if and
when you learnt of it either!

Inger E

"Per Rønne" <spam@husumtoften.invalid> skrev i meddelandet
news:1ggrhxj.1i6uorfra458nN%spam@husumtoften.invalid...
> Inger E Johansson <inger_e.johansson@notelia.com> wrote:
>
> > You seem to believe that all people who settled in the North Atlantic
prior
> > to Columbus came from Norway or at least had Norwegian origin.
>
> Certainly not. I know of the Irish monks.
>
> But your ideas of intense international traffic on Østerbygden is
> ridiculous. And you don't seem to accept that the major routes for the
> three Scandinavian peoples in the Viking Age was:
>
> Norwegians: The Shetland Isles. Orkney Isles. Faroese Isles. The
> Hebrides. Ireland. Greenland. Vinland.
>
> Danes: England. Ireland. Gaul. Italy [Sicily]. Israel [Kingdom of
> Jerusalem; King Baldwin was a descendant of Rollo].
>
> Swedes: Finland and the route through Russia to Constantinople. Founders
> of the first Russia in Kiev - a Realm which they named.
>
> Simply put: the language in the Nordic settlements in the North Atlantic
> was Old Norse. Not Swedish. And the idea of a Swedish visitor to
> Greenland in the 1300s who doesn't speak Old Norse, who takes part in a
> Greenlandish expedition to Minnesota and who in Kensington persuades the
> other people in the expedition to make a runestone /written in Swedish/
> is just too far-fetched.
> --
> Per Erik Rønne

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Jared Diamonds new book
    ... Or that evidence is found of Norse activity in Markland. ... > There would be no point in building not seagoing ships in America ... up and down along Western Greenland. ... bottom timber would have taken some time to finish in Roskilde. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Cod Fish, Walrus, and Chieftains
    ... This can be seen if you look at what the ships from Greenland via ... English King when King Erik called for England to pay for the pirates who ... documentation can find the ship that went under close to Ruin Island and the ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Jared Diamonds new book
    ... > Not to mention an oceangoing longship. ... Two of the species birches were brought to Greenland, ... There were other better wood in the forests to build ships from. ... Are you aware of the fact that in late 14th century up to 80 oceangoing ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Jared Diamonds new book
    ... > I would imagine that the cooling trend after the Medieval ... west side of Greenland and even if there was how can we ... >> the trade in tusks from walrus. ... being prohibited from owning ships. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Jared Diamonds new book
    ... You seem to be confusing the norwegian state and Scandinavia ... > together that allowed the Norse to make it to Iceland and Greenland, ... has arctic climate, there are natural forests in some sheltered southern ...
    (sci.archaeology)
Quantcast