Re: Question re. Copper artifact Canadian ArcticformerRe:CopperCasting In America (Trevelyan)

From: Seppo Renfors (Renfors_at_not.com.au)
Date: 07/19/04 

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 06:00:31 GMT

stevewhittet wrote:
>
> "Seppo Renfors" <Renfors@not.com.au> wrote in message
> news:40FA7B79.1CAE1338@not.com.au...
> >
> >
> > Inger E Johansson wrote:
> > >
> > > Seppo,
> > > it's funny :-) the way some still can't grasp the word trade-goods.....
> > > anyhow I wonder who in their ...... mind can believe that a
> cabinett-maker
> > > would have traded his working tool for anything the Inuits, Thule,
> Dorset
> > > etc could have given in return. Neither of those groups were the Ojibwas
> > > with which the Greenlanders definitly traded copper and silver
> items.......
> > > nor did any of the three groups live in a land of woods!
> > >
> > > As for the other funny comments some tried to imply drift-wood. I would
> like
> > > to see any of the suggesters trying to use a plane on wood that have
> been
> > > drifting in water....... that type of wood and the steel in the plane
> > > doesn't go well together....
>
> Why do you think having been exposed to water would make the wood more
> difficult to work with steel?

First point first. You are responding to me and therefor directing
your question to me, but please note, I have not said anything like
it.

On the other hand "driftwood" has certain characteristics - despite
species of tree. It is long dead timber when found on a beach. While
on the beach this timber dries, and it does indeed become extremely
hard. They are more often than not embedded with sand. The best time
to work timber is when it is fresh. It can be split fairly accurately,
but not so when dry. It is also the time it is easiest to bend into
shape when fresh - it becomes very difficult once the little
diaphragms in the "capillary tubes" dry out and scrivel up. Then it is
hard to get moisture back into the wood again to bend it - not
impossible, but hard. Further to that ship worm just LOVE wood!

> I'm asking you that because despite that boats
> spend a lot of time drifting in water people seem to prefer steel tools for
> working on them.

That isn't the issue about the "steel" - the issue is the definition
of "trade goods" -v - salvat\ge etc.. etc... The likelihood of a plane
being used as "trade goods" is vitually non-existent.
>
> Could it be that what you actually mean to say is that driftwood that has
> been scraped along a beach picks up a lot of sand requiring the surface
> layers to be split off with an axe or adze before working the wood with a
> plane or slick?

First of all - the most likely "driftwood" are tree branches - not
"trees". They would be very unlikely to make it out to sea with the
crown and roots still intact.
>
> Just to split a few hairs a ships carpenter or jointer isn't quite the same
> thing
> as a cabinetmaker.

Never said it was either! Wouldn't it be simpler to stick to what I
HAVE said instead of something I haven't?

[..]
>
> As to trading tools, you imply that because some tools are pretty
> a craftsman would never part with them. In my experience most people
> who have reached the point where they routinely make their own tools
> and take pride in them are delighted to exchange them with their peers.

Again the term is either "trade goods" or "trade items", which are
synonomous. Nobody has suggested "trade tools" which is a very narrow
category. However a shipright will have TOOLS of all kinds with them.
Being on one of those ancient ships, space was at a premium and it is
not likely such would be wasted on unnessecary duplication of tools.
On the other hand, these tools often does means life or death - or at
least the ability to return home. They are most unlikely to be traded
by shipwrights as claimed. To suggest a tradesman would part with his
tools is virtually sacrelidge.

Furtehr to that Floyd has admitted he has NO IDEA of how it came to be
where it is. Still it is far more likely as a result of salvage than
anything else. 

-- 
SIR - Philosopher unauthorised 
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The one who is educated from the wrong books is not educated, he is
misled.
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