Re: Kirsten Seaver's Vinland Map book- first thoughts

From: D. Spencer Hines (poguemidden_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 07/24/04 

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 00:00:47 +0100

[Father Josef Fischer S.J. ("Dating all the way back to 1440, the only
person in the world who could have made the Vinland Map").]

David B.
-----------------

The material in quotation marks above was supposedly written by Kirsten
Seaver.

Hilarious!

She sounds like a real fruitcake -- and certainly no Historian.

Two pages for the Kensington Runestone?

That sounds like about a page and a half too much.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

"David B." <davidb@tronospamchos.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cdu9uu$fgd$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...

| Kirsten Seaver's new book "Maps, Myths, and Men" (ISBN 0-8047-4963-9)
is
| extremely informative. The title, however, gives a clue that the
| information is by no means restricted to the subject indicated in her
| subtitle: "The Story of the V$ByO(Bland Map". Leaving aside the hundred
pages
| of notes, bibliography and index, it is probable that a good couple of
| hundred pages are devoted to various background issues, including a
great
| deal about known early maps of the North Atlantic area, a 60-page
chapter
| on the Norse "in and near North America"- mercifully dismissing items
like
| the Kensington Runestone in a couple of pages- and a 77-page final
chapter
| interweaving information about the construction of the Vinland Map
with the
| biography of Father Josef Fischer S.J. ("Dating all the way back to
1440,
| the only person in the world who could have made the Vinland Map").
|
| Surprisingly, the central claim about the purpose of the map- that it
was
| intended to be found by the Nazis who would be unable to cope with its
| mixed message of bold Aryan exploration and Roman Catholic world
| domination- is given very little space, just a couple of paragraphs.
Even
| then, Seaver suggests that "Not in his worst nightmares during that
dark
| period in his life could Fischer have foreseen what actually happened
when
| the map surfaced in public". Much more detail, however, is given to
the
| background for the theory, particularly the overt and implied
references to
| the Church. A point Seaver rightly (but perhaps over-enthusiastically)
| emphasises is that the map is meant to represent a globular Earth, on
which
| the influence of Rome ultimately met itself going east and west. The
key
| suggestion, which may or may not fall into the "over-enthusiastic"
| category, is that Bishop Eirik, after his work in Vinland early in the
12th
| century, would have gone west to reach his next alleged destination,
the
| "wintery east" (an improved translation of the phrase "orientem
hiemale").
| We readers can't dismiss this idea as anachronistic, because of course
the
| caption referred to is a fake. This Kirsten Seaver pretty much takes
as
| given. Very little of the book is devoted to explaining the evidence
that
| the map is a forgery (at this point I'd better declare my personal
interest
| and say that if that's all you want to know, you should read my little
book
| instead).
|
| Old favourites like the anatase debate and the wormholes are covered,
of
| course, and the book has probably the best compilation of information
about
| the British Museum tests in the late 1960s, but Seaver is more
interested
| in the reluctance of the map's owners (and the authors of the 1965
official
| book) to acknowledge the many problems. This is obviously the most
dramatic
| aspect of the book, but its impact is rather dissipated by the
structure of
| the text. Although it appears to be arranged in clearly defined topic
| sections, there are all sorts of overlaps, and many matters are
considered
| over several chapters. As a result, it is very difficult to gain an
| impression of the chain of cause and effect in the story of the map;
the
| book is better considered as a series of linked essays, with a
mercifully
| effective index for anybody who wishes to investigate any particular
matter
| in detail. Although I remain unconvinced by some of Seaver's
conclusions, I
| learned a great deal (including one or two things I should have known
| already- d'oh).
|
| David B.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Turn of the 20th century documents on Vinland - Shipley, Fischer & Jelic
    ... Vinland but as historical data *about the study* of Vinland." ... > anyone else subjective view of the scholar, ... I don't believe it until I see evidence. ... The "V+AO0-nland Map" first surfaced on the antiquarian market in 1957 and the ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Last word not said for the Vinland Map
    ... > Vinland Map. ... > i København til Yale University i USA, hvor de får en uge til at analysere ... hvor Vinland og dermed Nordamerika er ... > analysing the so called Vinland Map, said to origin from 15th century and ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Last word not said for the Vinland Map
    ... Vinland Map. ... Copenhagen to Yale University in US, where they during one week will be ... collective knowledge, we have, and the new knowledge we gain [from analysing ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Kirsten Seavers Vinland Map book- first thoughts
    ... "The Story of the Vínland Map". ... the only person in the world who could have made the Vinland Map"). ... A point Seaver rightly ... "wintery east". ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: The Vinland Map Find Or Fraud?
    ... >>For some reason David B's message didn't show up on my ... In context it refers to another part of the map. ... > there should be much much more kaolinite than anatase, ... > the anatase- and if the clay minerals are the result of pouncing, ...
    (sci.archaeology)