Re: Who has read Seaver's new book on the Vinland Map?
From: Philip Deitiker (Donevenask_at_worlnet.att.net)
Date: 08/09/04
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Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 19:41:58 GMT
Martyn Harrison <nospam@spammers.of.the.world.unite> says in
news:hqcfh0hhsge39qfh4ou410fdd657743u2r@4ax.com:
> Apparently on date Mon, 09 Aug 2004 05:56:45 GMT, "Inger E
> Johansson" <inger_e.johansson@notelia.com> said:
>
>>Tom if you or Philip continue your abusive ways here, I
>>will ask US Officials to make it clear for you that You
>>have violated International as well as US laws. As for
>>Philip I know he already has been told so. He will be told
>>so once again.
>
> Inger threatens to NetKop Tom, and is going to NetKop
> Philip.
>
> For those who do not know what this disgusting and
> repellent practice is, it is where you lose the actual
> argument with the people you are supposedly debating with,
> and instead seek to remove their objections by removing
> their ability to post again.
Well I don't think any US officials care and Inger has
repeatedly threatened and harassed people at my institute even
when I was not posting there. As they have made clear to me,
they can't stop me from posting, albeit they prefer I used my
home account and I do. And she can take all her complaints to
AT&T she likes. AT&T however has never yet said anything to me
so I suppose all her hooting and howlering will fall on deaf
ears. My ISP has many of the articles and documents she has
posted as material they asked me to collect, I suppose if she
desires to harass BCM more they may do a little harassing of
their own on her ISP (that it would do any good, is a different
matter). Their biggest complaint is that she is wasting their
time with these insane accusations. ISPs are not responsible for
post that do not originate from them. In addition their
activities let to pollution of BCMs email system.
And BTW, I make no stipulation that Tom is correct, but if he
is, he certainly deserves some credit for pointing out this
rather fabulous excuse, IMHO, it takes the cake. Birth
Certificates and Transcripts should not be a problem in country
as advanced and small as Sweden. In terms of me searching down
her post, I don't directly read Inger's post, its the principle
of the matter. Y'all can quote the relevant passages.
> The strategy is to invent offence at something the other
> posters have said. If their ISP is not clued up and
> believes they have some reason to act on complaints
> (whereas, they make money from their customers and not from
> the NetKop) then they may send email to warn their customer
> or cut their feed.
Well, of course, most of them probably have a huge dosier on
Inger so they got a special circular file for her complaints.
I guess that story of the boy who cried wolf was not swedish in
origin. Inger of course is excessively afraid of public
criticism, this you can see in the means of what she gets all up
about. She has to realize that her worst enemy is herself,
google does not just search by thread titles, it searches by
content and the material is kept forever. As george pointed out
in February, she may lie, but google does not, and what was her
response to google, 'I was forged', JerryT forged me. One
misleading statement to back up another.
> The Net Kop wins the argument, because their ISP ignores
> complaints about them (usually from extensive prior
> experience) so the opposing poster stops being able to post
> anything, while the NetKop can then Crow about how their
> ISP "agreed with them". And how "they must have been
> abusing me" as otherwise, why would their ISP have acted?
> Ignoring the fact that there was a complaint that usually
> wasn't investigated properly.
Complaint was investigated, no action was taken, except a lot of
hee-hawing? Who has she actually stopped. By engaging in that
behavior she turned people who were 'polite' to her into people
who think she is disgusting. Her modality of communication
(threatening, hollow threats) only worsens her public appeal and
disrepect. The point is that we at BCM are overwhelmed with junk
email and all kinds of things we cannot control because of
policy, no-one wants to be the instigator of rounds of junk
mail. Seppo posted the account of the president and several
people at BCM and as a result the spammers farmed thier
information and they got pummelled by more junk-mail. They did
not appreciate this at all. BCM has a policy of not changing
email accounts, I have had mine since 1987 and as a result
deliberate attempts at doing what Inger and Seppo did have
serendipitously hurt people at BCM. My president did not have a
presence on the net as he was new, this probably tripled his
junk mail. Brilliant strategy, of course, if you want a
complaint sent to your ISP from another ISP. She can call out
whatever she wants, but whenever she uses a criminal-spirit
propoganda technigue, I feel its my duty as a scientist here to
point it out to the group for their education into these
matters.
> This is a particularly effective strategy when conducted by
> an ignoramus against a professor. The ignoramus is
> worthless and is ignored by AOL or whoever, in Inger case
> Telia will not care about her at all.
That's right. That's why I never complained about her; however
my ISP, if she continues to harass them for post that do not
come from them. They may turn around and get some attention from
her ISP. ISPs have substantially more leverage with other ISPs
relative to single users. I do make one recommendation, posting
from work or institution to Inger is not wise, they are not
'professional' ISPs and they do not have the resources or time
to deal with the kook-harassments like Inger propogates. Keep it
on the private so that the professionals can deal with her
properly. The basic point here is you can pull a ploy a few
times eventually it will backfire. They know exactly which post
that come from them and which ones don't if it doesn't come from
them, the complaint is dumped. However if you are harassing a
college official, that might get a different response.
I have only one gripe that will get me to email an ISP, for
a group like this where the appeal is a science discussion,
profanities are excessively outside of the context of the group.
Only one word I have heard used by professionals is 'BS' which
refers to an ideal or conclusion that is based on the weakest of
facts. There is no good science word that covers that.
> Whereas, the professor's university will take it all
> seriously. Hence, ignorance wins when NetKopping is being
> used.
Well you folks shouldn't be directly addressing Inger, anyway,
Its a waste of time, even for quasi-sci groups like this, the
best way to get rid of her is ignore her. This 'professor'[Not]
is telling you that engaging in heated discussions with these
types of propogandizers is like arguing with a stoned bum on a
street corner, with the difference you might beleive what the
bum has to say, whereas you should never believe what a public
propogandizer should say. As Hitler once said '____________'
[Pick a phrase that starts any world war]. I just have this
thing against propoganda methodologies and I think people who
float in and out the group should know about propoganda patterns
for their own general enlightenment. I believe that dealing with
the blatant and including the not so blatant techniques is good
for both the inspection of the individual and the overall good
of science as many of liked-inger individuals use the same
diversionary techniques and tactics when critiqued. It is not
the minutia of the individual usage but that pattern of abuse
which is important for the critique.
> Inger, the ignorant witch, knows this threat has some fear
> for some. Judge her harshly, it isn't a mistake, she is
> NetKopping to avoid honest sharing of information to
> bolster her pathetic and discredited usenet existence.
Well the 'criminal-spirit' is at play here is, of course, to
protect her modality of propaganda. If the modality of
propaganda becomes clear to all, people won't even waste time
reading her crap anymore. The problem of course is that some
people need alot of evidence before they are convinced that
there is a 'criminal-spirit' at play and not just an 'ignorant-
spirit' that they think they can educate. There is a difference,
one desires to interact and potentially can learn, while the
goal of the other is to obfuscate, deceive and otherwise twist
the truth in order to serve some alterior purpose, like writing
bogus magazine articles or books, potentially at some time
becoming notorious enough to draw a profit. Her modality however
here is poisoning, because I am sure whatever university she has
been trying to get 'letters' from are aware of these side
ventures. The ignorance is the understanding of truth, truth is
not a discrete thing but a thing neccesarily of interpretation
and the tools of use are science and not here-say. If you don't
beleive this, if you believe only that your favored account
represents the truth, then one needs to create a web of
deception to defend that account. Truth lies at the intersection
of perspective, the more valid perspectives on has, the closer
one is to the truth. Perspective can define distance from the
truth, which is hardly ever directly achieved in full
confidence, but approximated in good faith. Therefore the
proportion of truth requires the good faith intentions and
seriousness of the individual divulging that truth, and also
good faith on defining its limitations.
BTW, you folks should also know that alot of these
diversionary propoganda posts are in response to queries about
her work or evidence. I don't see anyone question DJM about his
astrology sooth saying. The issue here is to recognize that any
query you make about the validity or authenticity of her work
will be responded to with propaganda. While Inger's propaganda
modalities are entertaining, this is a sci group and they are
equally destructive. Point out the propaganda and move on.
We see that for example the discussion of food archeaology
reached some level of seriousness in the discussion of
population evolution. This is the type of discussion the group
could engage in if it kept away from Inger's blatant trolling of
repeatedly disproved and discredited topics. If you know for
instance that Inger is dishonest about reading a book she
dislikes, and the response is going to try to PUFF up her
credentials to try to make it look as if she as serious as
another person on that topic, then why bother to bring it to her
anyway (other than getting me excuse 50 and 51). You know she is
grandstanding, you know she is going to grandstand when someone
elses credentials are better than hers, and you know she will
try any diversionary technique to try to elevate herself and
belittle professionals. Previous matters concerning credentialed
critiques of her favorites have resulted in insults of people,
accusations of lying, grandstanding, belittleing the experience
of professionals. This is her long term strategy. Dice the
propaganda out of it and ignore the rest, judge the tree by the
fruit it bears. In this particular case we see how the nested
lies are born out of her critique.
> It's
> the same with Seppo and Eric, they use the same tactics and
> publish this in their posts.
Eric, I think your being a little harsh of. Who really cares
what Seppo does, any administrator will read 2 of his posts and
flush the complaint. Thats what my ISP did. Eric does make an
effort to behave on the up and up, and does make an effort to
get at least some of his information correct.
> Yuri / Whittet are apparently harmless kooks. On account
> that they don't NetKop. There's a moral in there somewhere.
Yuri's tactics are still reliant on propagandism over substance,
which from a pure science perspective is fruadulent in spirit.
-- Philip - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mol. Anth. Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DNAanthro/ Mol. Evol. Hominids http://home.att.net/~DNAPaleoAnth/ Evol. of Xchrom. http://home.att.net/~DNAPaleoAnth/xlinked.htm Pal. Anth. Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Paleoanthro/ Sci. Arch. Aux http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sciarchauxilliary/
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