Re: 1507 text ref of Inventio Fortunata

From: Eric Stevens (eric.stevens_at_sum.co.nz)
Date: 08/17/04 

Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:36:55 +1200

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:05:50 GMT, Philip Deitiker
<Donevenask@worlnet.att.net> wrote:

>Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> says in
>news:8372i0tvdcohnc60d35bdkq8tnt8mu724a@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:25:43 GMT, Philip Deitiker
>> <Donevenask@worlnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> says in
>>>news:jf21i0tf1todvuq65q6afouhfec3vl0lhl@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> As I said, the vikings may have had the magnetic compass
>>>> and the later Norse almost certainly did.
>>>
>>>You are thick headed aren't you?
>>
>> You mean I'm not cowed into believeing your clouds of squink?
>
>No I mean you fail to capture important facts and instead focus
>on the weakest facts you can find. The point was that the Norse
>might have had a compass, but if they did and they relayed that
>information to Ruysch as you inferred, Greenland would have been
>oriented in the exact opposite direction.

Rusch only had to hear the reports of the squiffy compass behaviour.
There was no need for the Norse to map Greenland for him while they
were at it.
>
> The alternative is that they had a compass and you choice of
>magnetic poles was wrong, and the magnetic pole was east of
>northern greenland, then a compass would have given a mapping of
>greenland consistent with the Ruysch map.

I suggest you read Nicholas Cranes 'Mercator' to get an idea of the
kind of information used to construct maps in those days.
>
>However if you read my post you will see that Ruysch goes to
>Rome and publishes a map based on some knowledge of Cnoyen which
>is derived from England oxfordian minorite, and recent knowledge
>from columbus and other explorers. The net result is that there
>is no connection between Ruysch and the Norse that is to be
>believed and he inserts the wrong position of Greenland because
>the information beyond the south eastern coast is missing.
>
>The absolute squink here is that you are trying to shove a
>knowledge of a region into existence ...

Actually, all I did was point out that the vikings may have had the
magnetic compass and the later Norse almost certainly did. And, for
that, I get all this!

> ... that, to an abstract degree
>such as maps, never existed, and by the by you are trying to
>serve up things like compasses and ship going Astrolabes ...

I even gave you references which you seem to have totally disregarded.

Let the squink continue ...

> ... that
>were either crude or not designed for maritime use, and then say
>this is proof positive that these map elements were
>precolumbian. They are not. Potentially if we had a compy of the
>Inventio we could extract from the 'legends' the elements of
>measure, but this is so corrupted by 'hand information' that it
>is not even worth considering.
> This does not mean that precolumbian europeans did not reach
>the new world, but how they did it was quite simple, the paths
>they took were written notes and sailors tales, etc. The point
>is that the sophistication is in the art of being a sailor not
>in the natural magical arts and this limited to traveling the
>margins and not full open ocean travel.
> There were probably people who in 1400s had compasses and
>other navigations aids, but they were on the seas for personal
>gain and not notariety.
>
>Having studied notes for many years and accumulated vast amounts
>of information does not make you correct. Inger being the Prime
>example, it is the quality of being able to discern myth, lore
>and bias from potential facts in that set. The parsing of facts
>may leave that data set with 1/10 or 1/20 reliable accounts, the
>other 90-95% being, as you say, squink, for newsgroups like
>this.

Thank you for the demonstration.

Eric Stevens

Relevant Pages

  • Re: 1507 text ref of Inventio Fortunata
    ... > You mean I'm not cowed into believeing your clouds of squink? ... information to Ruysch as you inferred, Greenland would have been ... The alternative is that they had a compass and you choice of ... greenland consistent with the Ruysch map. ...
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