Re: Is the Phaistos Disk Minoan?

From: Qakare (qakare_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 08/17/04 

Date: 17 Aug 2004 03:15:15 -0700

As usual you try to change the topic. Obviously you can't name a proof
for a greek background for the Phaistos Disk.
I see no need to talk about lies like "The Phaistos Disk has been
found in Crete. Therefore, it "must" be Minoan". I never said this and
up to now I haven't given a proof for a Minoan origin.

qakare

grapheus@www.com (grapheus) wrote in message news:<337ae51f.0408161143.3c1fc4ef@posting.google.com>...
> Qakare, who strongly wants the Phaistos Disk not to be Proto-Ionian (I
> wonder why, as the Proto-Ionic decipherment of it is a sure thing !),
> but to be Minoan, has written a lengthy post on the subjet.
> I'll not discuss Qakare's denial concerning the Proto-Ionian origin of
> the Phaistos Disk. As he has read NONE of the J.Faucounau's books and
> papers, his denial is just a BLUNT STATEMENT, ignoring all the PROOFS
> of the Proto-Ionian character of the Phaistos Disk. If Qakare wants to
> be serious, he has to make the effort of being INFORMED first, before
> launching meaningless assertions !..
> But I will examine Qakare's arguments in favour of a Minoan origin of
> the Disk.
> These are of two kinds :
> 1)- "The Phaistos Disk has been found in Crete. Therefore, it "must"
> be Minoan".
> It's obvious that such an argument has no value : Hittite tablets have
> been found in Egypt, and Egyptian scarabs in Crete. Moreover, there
> are STRONG reasons going against such an idea :
> a)- In spite of EXTENSIVE diggings in Crete, NO other Disk has been
> found. Such an isolation would be strange if the Disk was Minoan. It's
> a normal thing if it has been IMPORTED.
> b)- It has been shown that the clay of the Phaistos Disk was not
> Cretan . (Research done at the beginning of the 20ies. Conclusion
> mentioned by G. Glotz in "La Civilisation Egéenne" p. 434).
> c)- the BAKING is not Minoan : NONE of the Minoan tablets have been
> baked in an oven. They were burned by accident, into a fire.
> d)- the use of stamps IN RELIEF is not Minoan. ALL the Minoan stamps
> are "in hollow". There are ONLY TWO exceptions : 1)- The jug n° 14276,
> decorated by stamping, with a stamp bearing the sign n°12. 2)- the
> clay-sealing HM 992, made with a stamp corresponding to Sign n° 21.
> The fact that the jug n° 14276 is the ONLY ONE of this kind amongst
> hundreds of jugs found in Crete, and the fact that both exceptions
> have been stamped with stamps in relief BEARING signs of the Phaistos
> Disk, are STRONG REASONS for seing both items as IMPORTS, like the
> Phaistos Disk itself, COMING from the same FOREIGN CULTURE.
> e)- Several hieroglyphs of the Phaistos Disk cannot be Minoan, but
> they belong to other Cultures.
> e.g. sign n° 2 (Philistine Culture) -- Sign n° 6 (Ugarit and Mycenes)
> -- Sign n° 12 ("People of the Sea") -- Sign n° 25 ( Keros-Syros
> Culture) -- Etc.
>
> 2)- "The Arkalochori Axe has also been found in Crete. Its script "has
> similarities to Linear A" and to the Phaistos Disk's script. Moreover,
> it's "a typical Minoan double axe".
> The argument is also without real value:
> a)- The "double axe" was not only Minoan. It was also known in
> Anatolia (See for instance the Legend of the Amazons).
> b)- The votive offerings in the Arkalochori cave were not all
> "Minoan". Some, like the "long swords" found with the axe, belonged to
> the Philistine Culture.
> c)- the script has NOTHING to do with Linear A : only ONE sign, out of
> 11, has a correspondent in Linear A (NA-sign).
> d)- The script is not the same as the Phaistos Disk's script. In fact,
> its most noticeable links are with the other "Proto-Philistine
> Scripts", for instance with the "Dagger from Lachish" or the "Sherd
> from Gezer" (See "Les Proto-Ioniens...", Fig. 28).
>
> The CONCLUSION is obvious : there is no reason for seing in the
> Phaistos Disk a Minoan artifact. On the contrary, it appears as an
> IMPORT. And such has been the opinion of most scholars : A.Evans,
> A.Reinach, G. Glotz, J. Chadwick, etc. to quote a few of them.
> And I will not mention that this view has been DEFINITELY confirmed by
> the VERIFIED Proto-Ionic decipherment of the Phaistos Disk !
>
> grapheus