Re: Polynesian and South American place names

From: Philip Deitiker (Donevenask_at_worlnet.att.net)
Date: 08/29/04 

Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 03:55:20 GMT

benlizross <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> says in
news:41313AFE.767A@ihug.co.nz:

> benlizross wrote:
>>
>> Philip Deitiker wrote:
>> >
>> > Jacques Guy <jguy@alphalink.com.au> says in
>> > news:412EF30E.4D16@alphalink.com.au:
>> >
>> > > "mama-san"? So there you are. Rant positive.
>> >
>> > I would urge some caution careful in rushing to
>> > judgement in this specific regard.
>>
>> I would agree with that general principle. In fact I would
>> hope that whoever is making up this story might have
>> looked to see whether local languages had any light to
>> shed on these place names before rushing off to judge them
>> half-Japanese.
>>
>> > Taseko means fast-flowing-lake in Japanese,
>>
>> "fast flowing" is an odd thing to call a lake in any
>> language and as Jacques has been pointing out, ko isn't
>> even a native Japanese word
>>
>> it runs into the
>> > river that comes from Chil-ko which in Japanese would be
>> > something like blood lake
>>
>> provided you ignore the -l-
>>
>> >or lake of death.
>>
>> (that would be shi, I think)
>> ...or "lake of a thousand"or "earth lake" or ....why not?
>
> But in fact it's part of the name of the local people:
> Chilcotin, or nowadays Tsilhqot'in, official translation
> "people of the blue water". Unless you look at the other
> web site, where it means "ochre river people".

Haven't seen it.

> According to
> the Akriggs, the -tin is the "people" suffix,

gen in Japanese, whereas in Korean its han, same as chinese.

> -ko- means water or stream,

In japan it can mean lake or occasionally river

> and Chilco has been variously translated
> as "warm water" or "young man's river". Any of those
> etymologies would be just as good as the imported Japanese
> kind, if you ask me.

Who says either has to be perfect, why do the words need to have
evolved from modern japanese, why could they have not evolved
from a language 2-3 ky old that diverged in 2 directions.
This is concretized thinking, back up a little bit and
understand that after the chinese came and left Japan Japanese
suffered trying to put the street language into chinese form.
They finally broke down and created specifically for their words
a phonetic language, and what the hell it works very well for
speaking some NA words, better than english.

  Japanese have the following
Tsu
Tsi
Shi
Chi
We say Mazda, its actually Matsuda.
No get your hirogana and katakana out and start looking at
some of the Athabascan names.

>> Enchiniko "[one]-
>> > two"-lake.
>>
>> if it were more like ichi-ni (still more Japanized Chinese
>> words)
>>
>> > Naniko "What-what"-lake. And many more.
>
> I think this would be Nanika.

In northern Japan some lakes end with ka or ko.
 
> These are all Athabaskan languages we're talking about. Now
> if you would just forget the place names stuff and focus on
> Athabaskan "ko" meaning water, and probably Rilly Old
> Chinese "ko" or "ku" or something meaning "lake", then you
> would have taken the first step towards
> Dene-Sino-Caucasian!

Except you can't trace a single gene of north american ancestry
to any chinese group older than 10 kya. B46 haplotype speaks
all, in addition the chinese have alot of dipthongs and Japanese
names can be spoken often as if you were speaking spanish.
  The Tlinglet HLA sit nicely into Japanese but better into Amur
river and there are no good intermediate groups in between. When
you get serious we can discuss the Ainu language, and the
language of the peoples in the Amur region and I would be
willing to bet you could find better examples between all three
(Amur river, Ainu and Japanese) than you could find good
examples south of the columbia river or north of the Yukon.
I would not be at all surprised if these were athabascans
because the two recent groups that show great HLA similarity
with the Japanese, Korean, Orochon, Amur river and Proximal
regions are the Tlinglet and Athabascans (to a lessor degree).
 
>> Just one "what", I think. And there's probably a "why the
>> *** not?" lake in there if you keep looking.

Niether in Japan or Native populations would that be acceptable.
BTW folks can we clean up our language a little bit, just cause
Septic is stealing peoples identity and cursing doesn't mean we
have to also.