Re: Kaimanawa Wall once again...

From: Alan Brennan (the.c_at_in.the.hat)
Date: 09/05/04 

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 13:28:40 +1200

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 11:22:37 +1200
Eric Stevens ( eric.stevens@sum.co.nz )
 wrote

> On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 23:03:35 +1200, Alan Brennan <the.c@in.the.hat>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 12:45:59 +1200
> >Eric Stevens ( eric.stevens@sum.co.nz )
> > wrote
> >
> >snip
> >
> >> >1.The currents and winds go the wrong way.
> >>
> >> Not so. See the diagram at
> >> http://www.uwm.edu/Course/416-340/lecture_notes/03PhysicalGeog2003.html
> >> The trade winds are easterly in the tropical belt. The surface
> >> currents follow them.
> >
> >snip
> >
> >That is a pretty simplistic answer. Of course the water flowing Eastward
> >must move Westward again unless it is to all pile up on the South
> >American beaches. But it is a three dimensional system, and no, the
> >currents do not necessarily follow the trade winds.
>
> The surface currents do tend to be driven by prevailing winds but the
> deep return currents are another matter. See
> http://www.geo.cornell.edu/geology/GalapagosWWW/GalapagosClimate.html
> >
> >"Huge whirls, formed by the major ocean currents, are found roughly
> >north and south of the equator; the Equatorial Counter Current separates
> >them. The northern whirl is formed by the North Equatorial Current,
> >Japan Current, North Pacific Drift, and California Current; the southern
> >whirl is formed by the South Equatorial Current, East Australian
> >Current, West Wind Drift, and Peruvian (or Humboldt) Current. There are
> >many branch and feeder currents that help to constantly circulate ocean
> >water of differing temperatures and salinities."
> >
> > Your primary school diagram of the trade winds is irrelevant. Try
> >looking at
> >http://facs.scripps.edu/surf/sepa.html
> >This is a map of wave directions: ie how things floating on the surface
> >actually move. Try explaining how a potato floating on the water off
> >South America will reach New Zealand.
>
> Its a mape of wave directions at a particular time. While the waves
> are driven by the winds of the day, the global circulation pattern of
> the atmoshere arises from the Hadley cells of diagram I cited above
> and the long term trends are as I described them. If you doubt me or
> want more detail, consult any ocean cruising guide.

But we're not talking about the global circulation patterns of the
atmosphere, we're talking about the global circulation patterns of the
oceans. You know. Big wet thing. Blue. Sits *under* the atmosphere and
is affected by it so some degree but only to some.
If you are wanting the sort of rough and ready diagram you seem to have
a penchant for, take a look at
http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8q.html
which is a rough and ready diagram of the *ocean* currents.
But lets all take a deep breath here. The original question was whether
kumera could self seed into the Pacific by means of the ocean currents.
I say no. So does anyone else who knows anything about ocean currents or
kumera. You are arguing otherwise? Unless you actually want to defend
that proposition, or argue that the kumera blew here on the westward
flowing tade winds let's leave Hadley cells, coriolis forces, polar and
subtropical gyres, El Nino, salinity ratios and surface friction stress
differentials quietly gurgling away doing their thing, shall we?
>

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