Re: Did the Trojan war really happen the way Homer said it did?

From: Franz Gnaedinger (frgn_at_bluemail.ch)
Date: 09/20/04 

Date: 19 Sep 2004 23:56:00 -0700

frgn@bluemail.ch (Franz Gnaedinger) wrote in message news:<2bf25455.0409172331.5c3d3d57@posting.google.com>...

(o8TY: leave me in peace, you are no longer welcome, and you know
why. Join your professor fungus, he is a match for you. I marveled
at his reconstruction of the lost spear in the raised hand of the
bronze Poseidon from Cape Artemision. Why does he render that spear
in horizontal position? Back in 1980 I got a special permission to
examine the plaster copy in the archaeological seminar of Zurich
university, a copy which had been cast by professor Waser. I can
assure you that the spear had an oblique position and was pointing
over the fingertips of the outstreched left hand. I found out by
means of a long paper roll, which I introduced into the opening
of the right hand. However, I had to wait 22 - twenty two - years
till an abstract of my then examination of that wonderful statue
could be published, namely in the proceedings of the Bridges
Conference, year 2002, of Towson University, Maryland; online
version on my website: http://www.seshat.ch/home/poseidon.htm)

(Jean Faucounau grapheus: next time you pop up in this thread
I publish the review on your first book by Yves Duhoux)

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Field 22 on the Elaia side of the Phaistos Disk, Evans 25 42
37 22, Ohlenroth Y AY(?) A X (ypsilon alpha-ypsilon? alpha xi),
yields HYAYAX - Poseidon in the guise of a stallion neighing,
during his copulation with Black Demeter Melaina in the guise
of a mare

   http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF

Evans 25, Ohlenroth Y (ypsilon), shows a ship and refers to
hydros (beginning with an aspirated ypsilon) = water, in the
plural waters, element of a ship, hinting at Poseidon, god of
the rivers and of the seas, and creator of the waterborn horse
that served as a ship and emblem of a ship, as on the gold ring
from Mokhlos in Crete:

   http://www.seshat.ch/home/elaia.GIF

Evans 42, Ohlenroth AY (? alpha-ypsilon), shows, I believe,
a ship filled with ores and ingots of various metals: copper,
cassiterite, silver, gold; and refers to aiglae = light,
shine, lustre. These would be ores and metals purchased by
Argivian sailors on the shores of Crete and Egypt, Cyprus,
Anatolia, in the lower Danube basin, and on the shores of
Italy.

Evans 37, Ohlenroth A (alpha), shows a grass and refers to
agrostis = grass, green fodder. One may think of a lush meadow
where Poseidon's horses graze.

Evans 22, Ohlenroth X (xi), shows a piece of wood or a branch,
bark peeled off, and refers to xylon = wood, piece of wood.
This would be the "round about polished pieces of wood" needed
for the sacrificial fire in honor of Despoina / Nyx, daughter
of Black Demeter Melaina and Poseidon.

The fields E 20 21 render the neighings of Black Demeter Melaina
in the guise of a mare and of Poseidon in the guise of a stallion
during their copulation that was the origin of Despoina / Nyx,
whose priestesses gave oracles in Elaia's grove at Phigalia.
Imitating those cries made Despoina / Nyx appear again. She is
"always born anew by the Goddess" (end of the Elaia text).

Next time: field E 23

Regards Franz Gnaedinger

> Field 21 on the Elaia side of the Phaistos Disk, Evans 35 40
> 27 7, Ohlenroth AI O A E (alpha-iota omega alpha epsilon),
> yields AIO AE - Black Demeter Melaina in the guise of a mare
> neighing
>
> http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF
>
> Evans 35, Ohlenroth AI (alpha-iota), shows a vine twig and
> refers to aithiops oinos = sparkling wine, a standing formula
> in Homer. The production of wine must go back to the era of
> the Goddess of Old Europe and early farming, for the vine twig
> Evans 35 is often linked with emblems of Demeter / Elaia, and
> on the gold signet ring from Tiryns four kings, which, I believe,
> commemorate eponymous Tiryns and his successors, raise libation
> jugs presumably filled with sparkling wine in honor of Demeter:
>
> http://www.seshat.ch/home/ring.gif
>
> Evans 40, Ohlenroth O (omega), shows a pair of bee wings and
> refers to okypteros (beginning with an omega) = on fast wings.
> The bee was a companion of the Cretan Elaia, as shown on the
> gold ring from Mokhlos:
>
> http://www.seshat.ch/home/elaia.GIF
>
> Evans 24, Ohlenroth A (alpha), shows a portable beehive and
> refers to ambrosia, which, I believe, was a mixture of honey,
> olive oil, and herbs such as milfoil, lavender, thyme, and
> sage.
>
> Evans 7, Ohlenroth E (epsilon), shows the oven, emblem of
> Demeter / Elaia. The ideogram resembles the oven in the
> shrine of Sabatinovka, Moldavia, Early Cucuteni:
>
> http://www.seshat.ch/home/kirike11.GIF
>
> Field E 21 combines emblems of Demeter / Elaia, so the cry
> AIO AE is imitating the neighing done by the Arcadian Elaia
> Black Demeter Melaina in the guise of a mare during the
> copulation with Poseidon in the guise of a stallion, out
> of which grew Despoina / Nyx, whose priestesses gave oracles
> in Elaia's grove at Phigalia in southern Arcadia.
>
>
> Next time: field E 22, Poseidon in the guise of a stallion
> neighing
>
> Regards Franz Gnaedinger
>
>
> > Field 20 on the Elaia side of the Phaistos Disk, Evans 40 36
> > 26 2, Ohlenroth O R I S (omega rho iota sigma) yields ORIS
> > of KSYNORIS
> >
> > http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF
> >
> > Evans 40, Ohlenroth O (omega), shows a pair of bee wings and
> > refers to okypteros (beginning with an omega) = on fast wings.
> > The bee is an animal of Elaia, as on the gold ring from Mokhlos:
> >
> > http://www.seshat.ch/home/elaia.GIF
> >
> > Evans 36, Ohlenroth R (rho), shows a thornbush and refers to
> > rhokhos = thornbush. When the Arcadian Elaia had been raped
> > by Poseidon, she turned into Black Demeter Melaina and made
> > all platns wither, thus causing a famine; only thornbushes
> > grew on the fields, no more cereals.
> >
> > Evans 26, Ohlenroth I (iota), shows a horn and refers to
> > isos = equal similar, since a pair of horns are a fine example
> > of equality and similarity and symmetry in nature.
> >
> > Evans 2, Ohlenroth S (sigma), shows the guard as soldier and
> > refers to skopeo skopae skopia skopiazo skopos, which words
> > have to do with guard and guarding.
> >
> > The previous field E 19 evoked the Lycaion Zeus; the shining
> > Zeus of Tiryns; Poseidon; and the Golden Fleece retrieved by
> > Jason = a gold ingot in the shape of a fleece purchased by
> > Mycenaean sailors. Now field E 20 evokes Elaia and her alter
> > ego Black Demeter Melaina in the guise of a mare, who, raped
> > by Poseidon, caused a famine. The horn relates Elaia / Melaina
> > to the soldier. What have Elaia / Black Demeter Melaina and
> > the soldier in the army of Zeus in common? The Greeks had
> > invaded the Peloponnese, overrun the civilization of the
> > Goddess, and turned her into an enemy, a stining bee on fast
> > wings, and one that caused a famine, made the plants wither
> > and only thronbushes thrive ... Those events are commemorated
> > in field E 20, whose phonetic value ORIS represents the second
> > part of KYNORIS = pair of horses.
> >
> >
> > Next time: field E 21, the cry of Black Demeter Melaina
> > in the guise of a mare
> >
> > Regards Franz Gnaedinger
> >
> >
> >
> > > Field 19 on the Elaia side of the Phaistos Disk, Evans 1 38
> > > 25 27, Ohlenroth K S Y N (kappa sigma ypsilon ny), yields
> > > KSYN, of KSYNORIS = pair of horses
> > >
> > > http://www.seshat.ch/tiryns.GIF
> > >
> > > Evans 1, Ohlenroth K (kappa), shows a walking man and refers
> > > to katabaino = I descend, here meaning Lycaion Zeus descending
> > > from peak Diaphorti of Mount Lycaion above Elaia's grove at
> > > Phigalia in southern Arcadia.
> > >
> > > Evans 38, Ohlenroth S (sigma), shows the rosette and comes from
> > > Sseyr = Zeus, the shining god of Tiryns, whose equal is the
> > > Lycaion Zeus (as stated on the Tiryns side of the Phaistos Disk).
> > >
> > > Evans 25, Ohlenroth Y (ypsilon), shows a ship and refers to
> > > hydor (beginning with an aspirated ypsilon) = water, in the
> > > plural waters, element of a ship and pertaining to Poseidon,
> > > who originally was the god of the seas. Furthermore, Poseidon
> > > was the creator of the waterborn horse that served as a ship,
> > > for example on the gold ring from Mokhlos:
> > >
> > > http://www.seshat.ch/home/elaia.GIF
> > >
> > > Evans 25, Ohlenroth Y, a ship, refers to nautos = ship and
> > > nausiporos = navigable, while Evans 27, Ohlenroth N, a wave,
> > > refers to nautos = ship, and nausiporos = navigable. One would
> > > expect ship > ship and wave > water. But no, we have ship >
> > > water(s) and wave > ship. A remarkable intertwining that may
> > > be justified by the close relation of water and ship, for the
> > > more properties of water are incorporated in a ship the better
> > > the ship is. I remember the drawings I made when applying for
> > > the official art school of Zurich. I sat with a colleague of
> > > mine at the shore of lake Zurich and drew the flat waves
> > > rippling the fairly quiet surface. When I looked for a long
> > > time on the water, say, for some twenty minutes, the waves
> > > turned into a swarm of leaping fish ... I told myself that
> > > such an illusion is only possible because evolution made
> > > the fish take over so many properties of the water. You may
> > > also consider the attempts of covering the rumps of ships
> > > and submarines with an artificial dolphin skin in order to
> > > make them softer, more suiting the water, and thus swifter.
> > >
> > > Evans 27, Ohlenroth N (ny), shows a hide and refers to nakae =
> > > fleece. On a gold disk it would be a golden fleece representing
> > > a gold ingot in the shape of a fleece. The Mycenaeans purchased
> > > gold from Egypt, perhaps via Crete, from Anatolia, from the
> > > eastern shore of the Black Sea, from the lower Danube basin,
> > > and from Italy - as seafarers, that is, relying on their fine
> > > ships, sailing across the seas like riding on horses, trusting
> > > on their patron Poseidon, creator of the waterborn horse that
> > > served both as ship and emblem of a ship --- the Trojan Horse
> > > was a ship, as explained early on in this thread, and when
> > > Odysseus leaves pleasant Scherie, the ships start like horses.
> > >
> > >
> > > Next time: field E 20

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