Re: Spirit Pond, Maine
From: I E Johansson (ingerxjohanssonx_at_telia.com)
Date: 09/26/04
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Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 07:30:31 GMT
"Tom McDonald" <tmcdonald2672@nohormelcharter.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:10lcl7ieihsma66@corp.supernews.com...
> Eric Stevens wrote:
> > On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 22:19:20 -0500, Tom McDonald
> > <tmcdonald2672@nohormelcharter.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Eric Stevens wrote:
> >>
> >>>On 25 Sep 2004 13:20:19 -0700, "Hal" <SpamThis1@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I E Johansson wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Tom,
> >>>>>on the contrary you are just witness to the first small start of what
> >>>>
> >>>>will
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>be a flood of information relating to KRS and other stones AND
> >>>>
> >>>>context are
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>known for at least half of them. Not to mention other Pre-Columbian
> >>>>>Scandinavian artifacts.......
> >>>>
> >>>>Why don't you visit your local museum for a good selection of
> >>>>Pre-Columbian Scandinavian artifacts. Most of them are probably
> >>>>authentic. People will agree with you.
> >>>>
> >>>>Oh boy - if only you know what's to be
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>presented with full proof from many scholars around the world within
> >>>>
> >>>>the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>next two years.
> >>>>>As one scholar who looked at KRS when it was here and who have
> >>>>
> >>>>listened to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>both sides and who also have had access to full proof of every word I
> >>>>>written in group, said:
> >>>>>We will be writing down North America's Medieval History within a
> >>>>
> >>>>short
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>time.
> >>>>>And he is partly correct.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>North America doesn't have a Medieval History. That's a European
> >>>>concept that applies to some parts of Europe, at some times. It's
> >>>>pretty well meaningless elsewhere outside of theme parks and the
> >>>>entertainment business. You mean you want to impose your little
> >>>>universe on the world as it actually existed here. In North America we
> >>>>were enjoying the last little bit of relative calm before the European
> >>>>invasion. I don't think it matters a bit which one of you was first
> >>>>discovered by people.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>So Drake wasn't an Elizabethan voyager when he visited North America?
> >>
> >> So Elizabeth ruled during the Middle Ages?
> >
> >
> > I don't quite know what you are driving at with that remark. The point
> > is that the labels applied to visitors are not chameleon like. They
> > remain fixed to the visitor. A Norwegian is a norwegian. A Medieval
> > Norwegian is a Medieval Norwegian. The history of Medieval Norwegians
> > in North America is the history of Medieval Norwegians.
> >
> > I'm not arguing for applying the term 'medieval' to the rest of the
> > population of North America but denying its application to the history
> > visitors or colonists from Europe is being overly precious.
>
> Sorry, I misunderstood you. That's what I get for paying
> attention to Inger's exposition of English grammar. :-)
>
> I took your remark to refer to the 'headsentence' of Hal's
> post. I see now what you meant.
>
> Still, I think Hal made an excellent point that we seem to lose
> sometimes. We tend to look at this from the European point of
> view. It's good betimes to remember that the funny pale boat
> people were curious distractions from daily life for the huge
> population of people (actually, mostly 'the people') already
> living here.
>
> Whenever we start this sort of investigation, I think we need
> to recall that most of our ancestors were late-comers to the
> lands we occupy, both in the Americas and in NZ. There is often
> a desire of newcomers to feel rooted to their new homes, and
> that often has taken the form of inventing historical
> connections farther back in time.
>
> In my own family, there is a legend that my parent's generation
> was '1/64 Kickapoo Indian'. It may even be true. My great
> grandfather on my mother's side's personal history is a bit
> ambiguous, and he is said to have had some Indian blood. The
> Kickapoo are a possible source of that blood, although there is
> also a possibility that the tribal name was borrowed because it
> sounds a little funny to many white Americans. In any case, I
> felt good about that connection because it helped ground me here.
>
> But as Vine DeLoria pointed out long ago, many white folks
> invented this kind of legend in order to feel connected, and not
> so much interlopers.
>
> It is undeniably true that many European immigrant groups also
> looked for signs of their ancestors, or at least Old World
> folks, in the Americas in the pre-Columbian past. Scandinavians
> were not the only ones by any means; and they turn out to have
> at least some right to claim such.
>
> However, before we begin the apparently inevitable slide into a
> new discussion of Old World folks being here long, long ago, I
> think we ought to take a little time to notice the historical
> record of wishful thinking and prejudice creating phantasms that
> a little rationality at the onset could have prevented.
>
> Anyone for an investigation of _this_ historical reality?
Tom,
what you don't seem to be aware of is that it's not only 'white man' from
Europe who has knowledge written or oral about the history of NA from 11th
century on forward. AND 11th century to 1500 belongs to the Late Medieval
Age.
Inger E
>
> --
> Tom McDonald
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