Re: answer to kenney former Re: Spirit Pond, Maine

From: Seppo Renfors (Renfors_at_not.com.au)
Date: 10/07/04 

Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 05:47:13 GMT

Hal wrote:
>
> Philip Deitiker wrote:
> > "Hal" <SpamThis1@gmail.com> says in
> > news:1097032857.484604.256780@k26g2000oda.googlegroups.com:
> >
> > > Eric Stevens wrote:
> > >> On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:09:12 +0100, Doug Weller
> > >> <dweller@ramtops.thisremove.co.uk> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >On 4 Oct 2004 14:57:57 -0700, Hal wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> As far as Cyclone Covey goes, the concluding sentence
> > >> >> on the home
> > > page
> > >> >> shows the author's interest
> > >> >> http://www.wfu.edu/~cyclone/
> > >> >
> > >> >Hm, I think that page is a change from what was there
> > >> >last time I
> > > looked.
> > >> >His interests are better described in this article by him
> > >> >in which
> > > he
> > >> >examines what he claims is Algonquin's Celtic content:
> > >> >
> > >> >http://www.wfu.edu/~cyclone/tifi.htm
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> At least he is prepared to think outside the square.
> > >>
> > >> Eric Stevens
> > >
> > > Outside the square? Is that how you would characterize this
> > > gem from his 'The Solutrean Connection Question' (linked to
> > > his home page)?
> > >
> > > "Everybody did not look European in the Late Pleistocene,
> > > but earliest Paleo-Americans evidently did. Their
> > > replacement by Mongoloid Paleo-Indians of Asia appears
> > > genocidal, unless epidemics co-accomplished the same
> > > result, as bubonic plague carried from Norway and Iceland
> > > appears ultimately to have wiped out long-later Vikings who
> > > extensively settled Newfoundland, Ontario, Manitoba, New
> > > England, Ohio Valley, Michigan, Minnesota, Iowa, and the
> > > Dakotas."
> > >
> > > Since these statements are not referenced, they must be his
> > > beliefs and conclusions. What do you think of that genocide
> > > stuff?
> >
> > 1. The earliest skulls are austroloid/Negroid.
> > 2. The second more caucasian looking migrants probably did kill
> > a few austroloid/negroids but more likely they spread in areas
> > that were more suited to them, the austroloids more suited for
> > the lowland and coastal habitats, the more caucasian looking
> > dudes moving into the highlands.
> > 3. There is no pervasive presence or remnat of specifically
> > norse HLA in native americans, in addition bubonic plaque would
> > have probably been more devastating to natives.
> >
> > Soluterean culture existed from about 30 to 24 kya. HLA suggests
> > something very odd happened. In europe any haplotype that lies
> > north or west of france, germany, austria, and italy (but not
> > the Irish, celts or norse, and tangentially the basque) seems to
> > have be trapped, migrating outward only recently. Haplotypes
> > south of this region are generally of low frequency even in
> > their native lands, but are trimodal with a second strong node
> > asia (Japan, _Korea_, Ainu, Orochon) also the new world (Chilean
> > highland, mesoamerican highland and western regions). Soluterean
> > like tools begin to appear in the transbiakal at 18 kya and
> > eventually make their way into Japan and the Amur river region.
> > There was in Japan a rapid shift in technology starting about 16
> > kya with the first of the worlds known pottery about 13 kya.
> > Amur river is about the same time. There appears to be a shift
> > in skeletal morphology also, in southern japan the
> > austrolo/asiatic skulls are replaced particularly in northern
> > japan with more australo/caucasoid looking skulls (with the
> > emphasis on caucasoid) these skulls strongly resemble both the
> > Ainu currently and kenniwick and spirit cave skulls. (See
> > sci.aux). No native american haplotypes that can be traced to
> > france, germany, are not also found in Japan or the Ainu and the
> > recombinants are such in a east asia allelotype frequency and
> > would not be expected if the immigrants were directly from
> > europe. My guess is that as the onset of the LGM about 25 kya
> > the people in the Marseilles region of france migrated eastward.
> > Currently I have added a couple of papers to my current set, one
> > with askenazi jews and the other a derived frequency base for
> > syrians. Within this path to the new world anatolians (<10%
> > turkic genes) are outside the path, however the askinazi jews
> > appear and syrians appear to have also some of these basque
> > derived french haplotypes, and haplotypes that appear to be
> > specific to the middle east appear also in korea, Japan and the
> > new world. Therefore 1 point in that path appears to be in the
> > middle east. In addition, while sampling in afganistan and iran
> > is poor, northern pakistan also has a ubiquitous spread of some
> > of these haplotypes and from here the trail goes dry until one
> > reaches the buriats of the transbiakal and the frequency begins
> > to increase again.
> > Not only this but in Japan, particularly the non-SinoKor
> > component of Japanese I have found an enrichment of haplotypes
> > nodal to southern india, while I am not certain the path appears
> > to have joined this Marseilles/Canaan path in northern pakistan
> > and moved to the north east. Some of these allelotypes are found
> > in the new world.
> >
> > By and large there is a rich and growing body of evidence of
> > rich sweeping migrations from the region of mediterranean middle
> > east into asia.
> >
> > Characteristic of the Islandic celts is the Super B8
> > haplotype. It is composed of A1-Cw7-B8-DR3-DQ2.5. Its very high
> > frequency in northern europe and new slavic nations appears to
> > be the result of a population constriction and highly assymetric
> > expansion. The nodal center for the haplotype is Ireland, and it
> > appears to have spread on expansion south and east primarily to
> > scandinavia. About 66% of the Scand haplotypes can be attributed
> > to haplotypes nodal to Ireland, and the 33% remaining are nodal
> > to peoples in the regions surrounding scandinavia. Also given
> > the glacial maximal ice coverage we also can predict that
> > geographically the region would not be a source. Whereas the
> > super B8 is highly similar to recombinants in the basque, along
> > with the A3-Cw7-B7-DR15-DQ1 haplotype, which appears to have
> > joined in the SW france region at ancient times and undergone
> > recombination. to form haplotypes present in the Irish/COrnish
> > Basque and Flemish. These are the core NW peoples that we
> > currently know of. None of these haplotypes nodal to these
> > people have reached the new world population in any frequency
> > not explainable by post columbian contact. So while it could be
> > true that celts spread into the americas from atlantic, it is
> > not likely relative to other routes. By and large my data
> > suggests that the basque, protoIrish/Cornish, protoflemish were
> > walled off from migrating to the south and east until the thaw
> > whereas their survival in this enclave appears to have made them
> > greatly 'selective' in the subsequent expansion. Now the super
> > B8 haplotype can be found in every country in europe and is
> > generally one of the highest frequency haplotypes, also in the
> > middle east and india, south africa, south american whites,
> > mulattos, it is the highest frequency haplotype in african
> > americans, in some native groups that have been anglified.
> > In mexico however were the primary explores were spanish the A29
> > cw16 B44 which appears to have recently come from africa to the
> > western coast of europe, is more popular. IOW we can show that
> > the most frequent haplotypes of non-asian origin in new worlders
> > generally coincides with the highest frequency haplotypes of PC
> > european settlers and and the historically documented levels of
> > contact or isolation.
> >
> This is very interesting. I'm only passingly familiar with the use of
> genetic markers to investigate historical population movements. Are
> there any good sites showing some of the distributions/migrations using
> maps or other graphics?
> Hal

It can be, but NOT by the HLA type Deitiker is pretending can be used
. Again he has ended up claiming the Japanese are really French
("western coast of europe"), and a Japanese people (Ainu),
identifiable as a culture from around 1700 AD to present are the
French from somewhere around 26,000 years ago. No, it is a load of
pretentious bull*** he resorts to. Please allocate Philip's garbage
above to fiction writing or nearest waste paper basket. 

-- 
SIR - Philosopher unauthorised 
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