Re: answer to kenney former Re: Spirit Pond, Maine

From: Doug Weller (dweller_at_ramtops.thisremove.co.uk)
Date: 10/14/04 

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:49:37 +0100

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:23:15 GMT, I_ E. Johansson wrote:

> "Doug Weller" <dweller@ramtops.thisremove.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet
> news:56ya9nfhyog6.iw31dmv44xl5$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:15:52 GMT, I_ E. Johansson wrote:
>> [SNIP]
>>> On the contrary Seppo. There existed ethnic groups which acted as
> Nations.
>>> Here in Scandinavia we do have one advantage which many forgets and that
> is
>>> that there exists written documentation from visitors, among them Dio
> 1st
>>> century AD. You know about Jordanes Dio? Did you know that he wrote
> about
>>> his visit in the island(!?) Geata up in the Northern Ocean. His book
> about
>>> the goths is gone but more than 50 of his speaches where he spoke of it
>>> still exists. Or how about Ptolomy's map. I am not talking about the
> version
>>> preserved in west but the version preserved in Asia Minor and used by
> many
>>> Arabic Carthographs up to 1000 AD? Wigotha Elf - yes that's what it
> say....
>>> Or how about written documentation from Tacitus up to Cassiodorus? Don't
>>> make a mistake while we can't prove that the Kvens, who up to 800 AD was
>>> known as merchandisers, to have been looking upon themselves as a
> National
>>> unite we do have a lot more written documentation to prove that they
> aren't
>>> and never were Finns. We also have a lot of documentation proving that
> the
>>> ethnic group of Finns didn't move into today's Finland before 550 AD.
> Most
>>> part of todays Finland had kvens and no Finnish speaking person before
> late
>>> Medieval Age or later. You see one thing about Swedes which most forgets
> is
>>> that we Swedes were exemplaric(?) to say the least to register
> settlements
>>> and new settlers in Finland from Birger Jarl's days on forward.
>>
>> You need to define what you mean as nations before you can have this
>> discussion sensibly.
>
> Major ethnic group of people who call themselves or are called by others
> with a certain name and who at least in wartime have their chosen leader to
> follow. They needn't be on leader for the group in peace time. As for the
> Goths there were many local leaders when they weren't fighting.
> I take it that you either forgotten or haven't read Caesar, Tacitus, Dio C
> nor any of the sofists?

I don't see the relevance of your question to mine, which was simply asking
you your definition of a nation. You've provided your definition. I'm not
trying to discuss nations in late antiquity myself.

Doug