Re: Meteoric and Cometary impacts in historical times - Hard Evidence

From: Martin Reboul (martin.reboul_at_SPAMFUKvirgin.net)
Date: 10/19/04 

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:21:10 GMT

"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
news:r723n0hfv4bagitrcla81t18avo1rup9c7@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:55:01 -0400, "Rodney Kelp"
> <Rodneykelp605@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
> >news:h111n015qm33ml67bvotpk6cj4b0qf1c9t@4ax.com...
> >> For some time I have been making the point to sci.archaeology and
> >> soc.history.ancient that while on the basis of our present knowledge
> >> it is inevitable that the earth has suffered major impacts from comets
> >> or meteors in historical times, there is virtually no direct reference
> >> to this in the historical record. Opponents to the idea that such
> >> impacts have occurred in historical times simply argue that in the
> >> absence of direct historical evidence they cannot accept that there
> >> ever have been any such events for the historians to record.
> >>
> >> I have responded to this line of argument by pointing out that the
> >> ancient witnesses to a meteor or comet impact would neither have known
> >> nor understood what it was that had happened. It was literally
> >> impossible for them to describe these events in terms which would have
> >> been comprehensible to us in terms consistent with our modern
> >> knowledge of astronomy. Similarly it is very difficult for us to
> >> understand what it is that the ancients were alluding to when they
> >> attempted to describe what had happened.
> >>
> >> Becaus , even now, the idea of such catastrophes is only slowly
> >> beginning to permeate the affected fields of study, many contemporary
> >> scholars of the ancient writings are still at a loss to provide an
> >> explanation other than literary fancy or mythology for some otherwise
> >> incomprehensible passages. It now seems that documents which might be
> >> profitably be re-examined in the light of recent astronomical
> >> understanding range from the Epic of Gilgamesh, through Hesiod's
> >> Theogony to Beowulf and beyond.
> >>
> >> I have previously raised the question of why it is, if such
> >> catastrophes have occurred in the past, that no archaeological works
> >> have identified their impact on any human settlement.The answer
> >> probably is that, as with the literary scholars, the idea of a
> >> meteoric or cometary catastrophe has simply never occurred to the
> >> archaeologists in the field. For this reason they have commonly
> >> attributed the destruction they have found to war or civil
> >> insurrection.
> >>
> >> All of these questions and arguments remain hypothetical while there
> >> is no hard evidence of impacts in historical times. To the opponents
> >> of such an idea, it does no good to point out that, for example,
> >> Tunguska left no crater and statistically the recent millennia must
> >> have contained may Tunguskas. However, in November 2001 a recent
> >> impact crater was identified in Iraq - see
> >> http://www.rense.com/general16/mete.htm which may be related to the
> >> geophysical findings by Courty of indicatoins of an impact in the
> >> same general area. http://www.knowledge.co.uk/sis/abstract/courty.htm
> >>
> >> Nevertheless, such relatively new-found knowledge tends to be ignored
> >> or rejected by both archaeologists and historians. This is going to be
> >> harder for them to do in the future with the recent identification of
> >> "an exceptional field of meteorites and impact craters stretching from
> >> the town of Altötting to the area around Lake Chiemsee in southeastern
> >> Bavaria, Germany" which, from the associated archaeological evidence
> >> seems to date from late Roman times.
> >>
> >> See http://www.astronomy.com/default.aspx?c=a&id=2519 and
> >> http://www.impact-structures.com/chiemgau/
> >>
> >> If the dating is confirmed, we now have undeniable evidence of a
> >> significant impact in an inhabited area in historical times. The
> >> question is, what did the writers of the time say about it? Did they
> >> say anything? If not, why not? Could this be the inspiration of
> >> Beowulf, or has that yet to be found?
> >>
> >> In any case, is it really possible that this event has not previously
> >> appeared in any form in the historical or archaeological record?
> >
> >
> >Except for Shoemaker-Levy there hasn't been a large impact in all of human
> >history ...
>
> If Shoemaker-Levy had happened to the earth, it would have been the
> end of human history - not to mention yet another mass extinction.
>
> > ...so how could there be any written record? The smaller ones like
> >Tunguska or Meteor Crator, well nobody was around, the population was
> >sparce ...
>
> People were around for Tunguska and there are eye-witness accounts.
> See http://www.tmeg.com/artifacts/tunguska/tunguska.htm
> Apart from that, Meteor crater being formed some 50k years ago, it
> would hardly qualify as being in 'historical times'.
>
> >... and the further back in history the sparcer the population. Most are
unseen.
> >Bible passages, like Ezekiel, refer to fires and sparky things in the sky
> >so that is all it would be to ancient peoples.
>
> Unless a larger Tunguska-like object was part of the display.
>
> In any case, thank you for illustrating the first paragraph of my
> article :-)
>
> The problem with saying that such things have never happened is that
> statistics show that earth should experience a Tunguska-like event
> about once a century on the average. OK, I know the figures keep
> changing but they still stay close to that sort of frequency. Such
> events have happened, about two thirds have happened at sea but there
> should have been a number over inhabited land during historical times.
> Analysis shows that there should also have been a number of events
> similar to the one which created Lake Chiemsee. The apparent absence
> of reports cannot be attributed to there being nothing to report.

I thought the Gulf of Mexico and Hudson Bay were probably the results of
meteoric impacts? I reckon it is time we stopped talking about this and started
taking a few sensible precautions, as Bruce Willis might not be available to
help us avoid disaster when the balloon goes up!
It really is stupid not to, as we have all those old nuclear weapons lying
around waiting for someone to abuse them - what better destiny than park them in
space just in case? Ironic that they might save the unworthy species they were
intended to destroy....
                     Cheers
                            Martin

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